Tomlin just...

[Steel Maniac]

This is the 3rd time I've posted this for you. If you responded somewhere and I missed please point me to it.

1. How many playoff games did Ben win in the same time period?
2. And is the QB more important than the HC?
3. And if the HC is more important than the players, why does it matter if he won a SB with players drafted when another coach was there?

My answers to these questions are here:

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/51625-quot-The-Standard-is-The-Standard-quot?p=852303#post852303

Special bonus for your "5 year" cherry picked timeframe (remember the answer to the last question when you look up this information so there's only 2 games you need to check out to find the answers instead of 5):

1. How many INTs/game does Ben have in the playoffs in the last 5 years?
2. How many turnovers/game does Ben have in the playoffs in the last 5 years?
3. How many of those turnovers went for DTDs?
4. How many points were scored off those turnovers (either as DTDs or on the opposing drive that started from the turnover)?
5. What was the date of the Steelers last playoff win and how long ago was it (I think this is my favorite of the bonus questions because it shows that your cherry picked timeframe is "technically incorrect" and just parroted from announcers)?

Sorry NB,...........

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

I didn't see this before this morning. You and I have been over this a million times. I've answered these questions a million times. Please go back over the years and see my answers. That's why I don't have these long winded post anymore.

** As far as the " he hasn't won in 5 years" question, what you posted ( and what LP said) is correct. I looked at it incorrectly. So..Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game in 4 years
After this year, it will be 5 and then what? The bottom line is that you can't take the fact that he's terrible in the playoffs and that anybody who points that out, you and a few want to attack
and attempt to discredit that poster. I've already said Tomlin does fine in the regular season; but the fact remains that no matter what the team is on a scale of good in a season (weather the team is picked /favored to go to the Super Bowl , as it was 5 times over the last 11 years or just considered a good team) Tomlin can't get the job done in the post season. Those are undebatable facts. And not worth debating anymore.

Our history is defined by what we've done in the post-season; Super bowls are not won Now by regular season success. To sit here and you and a couple of others say he's great ONLY because of what he's done in the regular season is insane. Absolutely insane. You do not judge someone only for one aspect of their job........you judge them on the totality of their job. Tomlin is a "B" grade coach in the regular season........but he's a " F" grade coach in the playoffs. Now average that out.........and that's where he is as a coach.

this discussion is over.

[feltdizz]

Sorry NB,...........

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

I didn't see this before this morning. You and I have been over this a million times. I've answered these questions a million times. Please go back over the years and see my answers. That's why I don't have these long winded post anymore.

** As far as the " he hasn't won in 5 years" question, what you posted ( and what LP said) is correct. I looked at it incorrectly. So..Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game in 4 years
After this year, it will be 5 and then what? The bottom line is that you can't take the fact that he's terrible in the playoffs and that anybody who points that out, you and a few want to attack
and attempt to discredit that poster. I've already said Tomlin does fine in the regular season; but the fact remains that no matter what the team is on a scale of good in a season (weather the team is picked /favored to go to the Super Bowl , as it was 5 times over the last 11 years or just considered a good team) Tomlin can't get the job done in the post season. Those are undebatable facts. And not worth debating anymore.

Our history is defined by what we've done in the post-season; Super bowls are not won Now by regular season success. To sit here and you and a couple of others say he's great ONLY because of what he's done in the regular season is insane. Absolutely insane. You do not judge someone only for one aspect of their job........you judge them on the totality of their job. Tomlin is a "B" grade coach in the regular season........but he's a " F" grade coach in the playoffs. Now average that out.........and that's where he is as a coach.

this discussion is over.

those are opinions..

no one becomes a SB fav just because a few pundits say it.

The Browns are SB favorites every offseason.

I think your issue is forcing opinions to be facts because you aren’t able to use common sense and reasonable expectations.

If missing a SB is considered failure then Noll and Cowher were failures the majority of their careers too.

No shade but you remind me of those single dudes who break up with women because they had morning breath or their farts stunk. If your expectations aren’t realistic you will always see failure in the NFL.

[Northern_Blitz]

Sorry NB,...........

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

I didn't see this before this morning. You and I have been over this a million times. I've answered these questions a million times. Please go back over the years and see my answers. That's why I don't have these long winded post anymore.

** As far as the " he hasn't won in 5 years" question, what you posted ( and what LP said) is correct. I looked at it incorrectly. So..Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game in 4 years
After this year, it will be 5 and then what? The bottom line is that you can't take the fact that he's terrible in the playoffs and that anybody who points that out, you and a few want to attack
and attempt to discredit that poster. I've already said Tomlin does fine in the regular season; but the fact remains that no matter what the team is on a scale of good in a season (weather the team is picked /favored to go to the Super Bowl , as it was 5 times over the last 11 years or just considered a good team) Tomlin can't get the job done in the post season. Those are undebatable facts. And not worth debating anymore.

Our history is defined by what we've done in the post-season; Super bowls are not won Now by regular season success. To sit here and you and a couple of others say he's great ONLY because of what he's done in the regular season is insane. Absolutely insane. You do not judge someone only for one aspect of their job........you judge them on the totality of their job. Tomlin is a "B" grade coach in the regular season........but he's a " F" grade coach in the playoffs. Now average that out.........and that's where he is as a coach.

this discussion is over.

Thanks for admitting that you were incorrect! I appreciate and respect your honesty.

I wonder how many coaches that are terrible in the playoffs have been to two SBs and won one? Note: I don't actually wonder this because I've looked it up and posted it.

This list is very short if you only look at guys in the salary cap era.

I get it if as a Steelers fan, you are confused about the definition of the word "terrible". Because these babies are pretty sweet.



Sadly, I also think that we'll cross the 5 year mark without winning a playoff game.

I won't be surprised if we miss the playoffs in a tight AFC. This was my prediction at the beginning of the season.

And if we make the playoffs, I don't think it will be as a division champ.

And I don't think we're good enough right now to have much confidence that we'd beat a highly seeded team in the AFC...but we did already beat the Bills, so maybe things fall just right.

[feltdizz]

Thanks for admitting that you were incorrect! I appreciate and respect your honesty.

I wonder how many coaches that are terrible in the playoffs have been to two SBs and won one? Note: I don't actually wonder this because I've looked it up and posted it.

This list is very short if you only look at guys in the salary cap era.

I get it if as a Steelers fan, you are confused about the definition of the word "terrible". Because these babies are pretty sweet.



Sadly, I also think that we'll cross the 5 year mark without winning a playoff game.

I won't be surprised if we miss the playoffs in a tight AFC. This was my prediction at the beginning of the season.

And if we make the playoffs, I don't think it will be as a division champ.

And I don't think we're good enough right now to have much confidence that we'd beat a highly seeded team in the AFC...but we did already beat the Bills, so maybe things fall just right.

That’s fair.. but even this year I believe we are exceeding most of the board’s expectations so far when it comes to win totals.

[whisper]

Cowher's record for AFCCG losses should hold for a long time.

That's a depressing stat, and HOME losses to boot. It took pure magic to win it all in 2005. Everything lined up at the right time, including Colt's FG kicker to blow a chip shot (which prior to that kick, he virtually never did).

[feltdizz]

That's a depressing stat, and HOME losses to boot. It took pure magic to win it all in 2005. Everything lined up at the right time, including Colt's FG kicker to blow a chip shot (which prior to that kick, he virtually never did).

don’t forget about the Colts almost completing that hailmary in 1995 too.

The Cowher teams always played spotty defense in our AFCCG’s.

[Northern_Blitz]

That’s fair.. but even this year I believe we are exceeding most of the board’s expectations so far when it comes to win totals.

I agree that we have more wins than I thought we'd have so far.

I hope that means that we'll make the playoffs and not just miss.

[Mr.wizard]

Sorry NB,...........

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

I didn't see this before this morning. You and I have been over this a million times. I've answered these questions a million times. Please go back over the years and see my answers. That's why I don't have these long winded post anymore.

** As far as the " he hasn't won in 5 years" question, what you posted ( and what LP said) is correct. I looked at it incorrectly. So..Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game in 4 years
After this year, it will be 5 and then what? The bottom line is that you can't take the fact that he's terrible in the playoffs and that anybody who points that out, you and a few want to attack
and attempt to discredit that poster. I've already said Tomlin does fine in the regular season; but the fact remains that no matter what the team is on a scale of good in a season (weather the team is picked /favored to go to the Super Bowl , as it was 5 times over the last 11 years or just considered a good team) Tomlin can't get the job done in the post season. Those are undebatable facts. And not worth debating anymore.

Our history is defined by what we've done in the post-season; Super bowls are not won Now by regular season success. To sit here and you and a couple of others say he's great ONLY because of what he's done in the regular season is insane. Absolutely insane. You do not judge someone only for one aspect of their job........you judge them on the totality of their job. Tomlin is a "B" grade coach in the regular season........but he's a " F" grade coach in the playoffs. Now average that out.........and that's where he is as a coach.

this discussion is over.

Tomlin is a great coach because his teams win, the idea that a COACH's career should be summed up by games won in lost in a single elimination tournament in a league with the most parity is absurd. Also its crazy to say what you do in the regular season doesnt matter, how many teams do you know of that play losing football in the regular season and go on to win the Superbowl, because there head coach turns on the greatness during playoff time.

[hawaiiansteel]

wont happen.. lol.

SM will lie about the lie

just you wait and see

[whisper]

Tomlin is a great coach because his teams win, the idea that a COACH's career should be summed up by games won in lost in a single elimination tournament in a league with the most parity is absurd. Also its crazy to say what you do in the regular season doesnt matter, how many teams do you know of that play losing football in the regular season and go on to win the Superbowl, because there head coach turns on the greatness during playoff time.

Your logic is cracked. I can't even follow it.

[feltdizz]

Your logic is cracked. I can't even follow it.

lmao.. that’s because regular season wins matter.

[hackjam]

it blows a huge hole in the "but Cowher built his teams" point most make.

I will admit I never looked at the roster when Cowher was hired to see how many players he had for that first SB appearance because it's a silly point.

Well, to Cowher's credit the '01-'06 teams were "his" (and Colbert's and of course the organization as a whole) and the core guys from that era continued to be the core through about 2011 or 2012.

The actual criticism would be that Tomlin couldn't rebuild a roster to the level that he had when he started. There are of course a lot of factors at play there but the core of the team that had the second best decade in team history was built by Cowher and Colbert.

I always thought Tomlin's 2012 and 2013 seasons were quite similar to Cowher's 1998 - 2000 seasons in the sense that they were transitional phases from one era to the next that involved a great deal of roster turnover. When you compare the records, especially in the playoffs, coming out of those stretches it's not even close.

Now to build upon a point from earlier on this post, these are organizational things. IMO It's more of an indication of how the organization is operating as a whole and where they are in their lifecycle than a hard indicator of whether one coach is better than another. Of course the head coach is a part of that but it's scouting, it's player development, it's utilization of draft capital; there are a lot of variables that are probably not appreciated nearly enough.

[Northern_Blitz]

Well, to Cowher's credit the '01-'06 teams were "his" (and Colbert's and of course the organization as a whole) and the core guys from that era continued to be the core through about 2011 or 2012.

The actual criticism would be that Tomlin couldn't rebuild a roster to the level that he had when he started. There are of course a lot of factors at play there but the core of the team that had the second best decade in team history was built by Cowher and Colbert.

I always thought Tomlin's 2012 and 2013 seasons were quite similar to Cowher's 1998 - 2000 seasons in the sense that they were transitional phases from one era to the next that involved a great deal of roster turnover. When you compare the records, especially in the playoffs, coming out of those stretches it's not even close.

Now to build upon a point from earlier on this post, these are organizational things. IMO It's more of an indication of how the organization is operating as a whole and where they are in their lifecycle than a hard indicator of whether one coach is better than another. Of course the head coach is a part of that but it's scouting, it's player development, it's utilization of draft capital; there are a lot of variables that are probably not appreciated nearly enough.

This post makes a ton of sense IMO.

[hackjam]

I think the Cowher era Steelers' record in the draft is much stronger for whatever that's worth. There isn't really a bad year.

[hawaiiansteel]

I think the Cowher era Steelers' record in the draft is much stronger for whatever that's worth. There isn't really a bad year.

Steelers swung and missed in 1996 with Jamain Stephens, that's for sure.