Can we just stop already with the ben debate!

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mEp5Bd][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2mEp5Bd]Capture[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr



Is it the OL or the QB? Roethlisberger has the fastest time to throw, Brady has the 2nd.

I think that the Steelers are on this list not because they give up little pressure, but because Ben gets rid of the ball so quickly before the pass rush gets close.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Can we all just acknowledge Ben is not top tier anymore! I am a huge Big Ben supporter and am glad we get one more year of him.

Of course. The things that he was special at no longer exist. One thing is that if he had 4 seconds before the pressure got there, he could take 3.99 seconds to make the play and take the hit. He doesn't do that anymore. The other thing he did so well was shake off the pass rusher and turn 4 seconds into 8 seconds, and in those extra 4 seconds he would find the big play.

Those two skills are no longer existent in Ben's game.

[feltdizz]

Heard today that Harris is on pace for 90+ receptions this year.

That's insane.

Life is so much easier when you throw the ball the the RB instead of trying to play hero ball.

I had no idea we would use him this much in the passing game this early.

[papillon]

Life is so much easier when you throw the ball the the RB instead of trying to play hero ball.

I had no idea we would use him this much in the passing game this early.

Probably not by design but out of necessity or skittishness of the quarterback. I don't think the Steelers were putting together an offense and said, "Hey, this will be a good idea, lets get the ball to our rookie running back nearly 100 hundred times via the pass and 340 touches in the rushing game and, by the way, let him take on linebackers in pass protection."

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

Probably not by design but out of necessity or skittishness of the quarterback. I don't think the Steelers were putting together an offense and said, "Hey, this will be a good idea, lets get the ball to our rookie running back nearly 100 hundred times via the pass and 340 touches in the rushing game and, by the way, let him take on linebackers in pass protection."

Pappy

It's not sustainable. I fear the season will play out that way if they can't find another way.

[feltdizz]

Probably not by design but out of necessity or skittishness of the quarterback. I don't think the Steelers were putting together an offense and said, "Hey, this will be a good idea, lets get the ball to our rookie running back nearly 100 hundred times via the pass and 340 touches in the rushing game and, by the way, let him take on linebackers in pass protection."

Pappy

I think it was “lets get the ball to Najee any way we can”

Derek Henry is on pace for some serious touches this year.

IMO when you have a talent you use them.

I don’t think you can protect a football player from injury. Hopefully he stays healthy this year and beyond

[Northern_Blitz]

I think it was “lets get the ball to Najee any way we can”

Derek Henry is on pace for some serious touches this year.

IMO when you have a talent you use them.

I don’t think you can protect a football player from injury. Hopefully he stays healthy this year and beyond

You can't protect a football player from injury.

But you can reduce his chances of getting injured.

I think when the Depot was talking about Bell, they were saying something like most RBs in today's NFL have a poor year if they got > 300 touches the year before.

In his last 2 years in Pit, Bell had 336 (261 rush + 75 rec) and 406 (321+85) touches. His YPC dropped by about a yard in the last year and his YPR dropped by 0.5 yards (I know YPC isn't the best stat, but I don't have the success rates). He's been pretty bad ever since.

Bell also had over 300 touches in his 2nd season (290+83). And missed 10 games the following year.

He did not have over 300 touches in his 1st year or his 3rd (due to injury).

This year, Harris in on pace for 385 touches (289 + 96) in a 17 game season. That's equivalent to 362 (272 + 90) in a 16 game season.

I don't think that bodes well for next year (or even the end of this year). But we'll see.

I think this means that we need to give other RBs more opportunities. Even though they seem to be clearly worse than Harris.

[skyhawk]

Of course. The things that he was special at no longer exist. One thing is that if he had 4 seconds before the pressure got there, he could take 3.99 seconds to make the play and take the hit. He doesn't do that anymore. The other thing he did so well was shake off the pass rusher and turn 4 seconds into 8 seconds, and in those extra 4 seconds he would find the big play.

Those two skills are no longer existent in Ben's game.

He also no longer has brown or anyone on the roster who can make plays on the ball like brown did. BROWN was one of the best in the league at competing for balls and making tough catches. It's a two way street and that hurts ben alot who has (other than brown) prefers a receiver wide open before throwing it.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

He also no longer has brown or anyone on the roster who can make plays on the ball like brown did. BROWN was one of the best in the league at competing for balls and making tough catches. It's a two way street and that hurts ben alot who has (other than brown) prefers a receiver wide open before throwing it.

The two of them had such a great connection. They both knew that if AB did not have the DB beat, the ball would be delivered short and Brown could push off a bit and take the ball on his back shoulder.

[feltdizz]

You can't protect a football player from injury.

But you can reduce his chances of getting injured.

I think when the Depot was talking about Bell, they were saying something like most RBs in today's NFL have a poor year if they got > 300 touches the year before.

In his last 2 years in Pit, Bell had 336 (261 rush + 75 rec) and 406 (321+85) touches. His YPC dropped by about a yard in the last year and his YPR dropped by 0.5 yards (I know YPC isn't the best stat, but I don't have the success rates). He's been pretty bad ever since.

Bell also had over 300 touches in his 2nd season (290+83). And missed 10 games the following year.

He did not have over 300 touches in his 1st year or his 3rd (due to injury).

This year, Harris in on pace for 385 touches (289 + 96) in a 17 game season. That's equivalent to 362 (272 + 90) in a 16 game season.

I don't think that bodes well for next year (or even the end of this year). But we'll see.

I think this means that we need to give other RBs more opportunities. Even though they seem to be clearly worse than Harris.

D. Henry has shown its possible.

[Northern_Blitz]

D. Henry has shown its possible.

So you think it's a good idea to run an experiment that's failed 99%+ of the time because it worked in one case?

That's not a good recipe for success.

We need to manage Harris' load or we run a pretty big risk of ruining him IMO. But load management of RBs is something we don't seem to have any respect for. Even though it's burned us multiple times in the past. Tomlin needs to get better in this regard IMO.

[Steel Maniac]

We definitely need to manage NJ's load. Save him from himself. He wants to do so well and wants to be our offensive focal point but it's not fair or right for him to have to carry the load he's carried so far. Not too much we can do to help him per carry this year. But we can run those other clowns we have as runningbacks more than we have.

It's paramount for us to really upgrade this sham of an offensive line next year to help NJ. Would also help him to find a QB upgrade somewhere. Might be asking for too much to fix both in one off-season thou. Just feel real bad for NJ. Feels like management is taking advantage of his enthusiasm to want to do well and youth; without giving him some real help.

Rookie OC who's learning his job isn't doing him any favors either.

[hawaiiansteel]

So you think it's a good idea to run an experiment that's failed 99%+ of the time because it worked in one case?

That's not a good recipe for success.

We need to manage Harris' load or we run a pretty big risk of ruining him IMO. But load management of RBs is something we don't seem to have any respect for. Even though it's burned us multiple times in the past. Tomlin needs to get better in this regard IMO.

I don't necessarily think it's a good idea.

but that's Tomlin's m.o. he likes having one bell cow, and he runs the wheels off of them. has Tomlin ever done it any other way?

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't necessarily think it's a good idea.

but that's Tomlin's m.o. he likes having one bell cow, and he runs the wheels off of them. has Tomlin ever done it any other way?

Not unless forced to by injury or just having to pick from a few poor options IMO.

I think it's maybe his biggest failing as a coach.

And while it's on the offensive side of the ball - where he presumably has less influence - it's happened over multiple OCs and he's seen how it hurt our team in the playoffs when guys like Bell get hurt. So I think it's on him.

I think load management is a big reason for analytics. I think it's made a big difference in the NBA this way. I assume that the results will say something like limit your RB touches before the playoffs to avoid Pyrrhic victors in the regular season.

I don't mind that he uses his gut in game on decisions that are close to coin flips. It gets a lot of chatter, but I think these decisions are usually not unreasonable (even when they may not be optimal).

But the load management thing is something that I think we've been doing clearly wrong for a while.

I don't know how big the impact is. But I will continually point to the year where we crowded Blount off the team because we didn't carve out a role for him (65 carries and 6 receptions in 11 games) while Bell was getting an insanely high workload (290 carries and 83 recs in 16 games). Then we lost to Baltimore in WC round after Bell gets hurt and we play the likes of Josh Harris (9 carries) and Ben Tate (5 carries)...Ben had 2 carries and a bunch of other people with 1.

Would Bell still have gotten injured if we gave some of his touches to Blount?
Do we beat Baltimore if Bell isn't out for that game?
If we do beat Baltimore, could we beat the Pats (and Blount) in the next game and follow their road to SB victory in XLIX?

It's impossible to know the answer to any of those questions. But I think running Bell into the ground (373 touches) before the playoffs even started wasn't a great strategy for success.

And we continue to walk the same path with Harris on pace for 385 touches (289 carries and 96 receptions) over 17 games...if he makes it through that many games.

I get that we want to win games and that Harris sometimes seems like the only bright spot on offense. But we need to figure out other options or we're going to get him killed IMO.

[feltdizz]

So you think it's a good idea to run an experiment that's failed 99%+ of the time because it worked in one case?

That's not a good recipe for success.

We need to manage Harris' load or we run a pretty big risk of ruining him IMO. But load management of RBs is something we don't seem to have any respect for. Even though it's burned us multiple times in the past. Tomlin needs to get better in this regard IMO.

when our RB is built just like Henry and is also a Bama guy?

Yeah..

I’m not one to protect a player from injury. We drafted him to use him. Not trying to jinx him but we could split carries the rest of the season and he could still get hurt.