A reason Ben does not want to retire

[feltdizz]

This isn't the first time we've seen this story. How many playoff games should the Steelers give him to restore his pride?

damn.. sad but true.

[Northern_Blitz]

This isn't the first time we've seen this story. How many playoff games should the Steelers give him to restore his pride?

We should give him zero.

But I think he'll get to come back one more year.

[NorthCoast]

From the Depot:

Ben Roethlisberger won’t be bad enough to have them win four or five games. He’ll never be good enough the rest of his career to have them win 10 or 11 games from here on out, I don’t think. So their best chance, it’s probably about a push [between him and Rudolph], I would think.

Here’s the thing. We found this out from day one when they drafted Mason Rudolph. The opinion with Mason Rudolph within the walls of that building at the South Side facility is vastly different than the court of public opinion in Pittsburgh.

Every chance that they get, no matter who it is, whether it’s Mike Tomlin, whether it’s Kevin Colbert, whether it’s Art II, they seem to have a much higher opinion of Mason Rudolph than the general public does in Pittsburgh, and they’re very willing to tell it to us.

[Northern_Blitz]

From the Depot:

Ben Roethlisberger won’t be bad enough to have them win four or five games. He’ll never be good enough the rest of his career to have them win 10 or 11 games from here on out, I don’t think. So their best chance, it’s probably about a push [between him and Rudolph], I would think.

Here’s the thing. We found this out from day one when they drafted Mason Rudolph. The opinion with Mason Rudolph within the walls of that building at the South Side facility is vastly different than the court of public opinion in Pittsburgh.

Every chance that they get, no matter who it is, whether it’s Mike Tomlin, whether it’s Kevin Colbert, whether it’s Art II, they seem to have a much higher opinion of Mason Rudolph than the general public does in Pittsburgh, and they’re very willing to tell it to us.

I think the part about Ben in the first paragraph is how I look at it.

Not bad enough to get the high draft pick we'll want to find the next QB.

Not good enough to seriously threaten for a SB.

Time to rebuild IMO. And that means giving the keys to Rudolph / Haskins / whoever and maybe not winning many games next season.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

From the Depot:

Ben Roethlisberger won’t be bad enough to have them win four or five games. He’ll never be good enough the rest of his career to have them win 10 or 11 games from here on out, I don’t think. So their best chance, it’s probably about a push [between him and Rudolph], I would think.

Here’s the thing. We found this out from day one when they drafted Mason Rudolph. The opinion with Mason Rudolph within the walls of that building at the South Side facility is vastly different than the court of public opinion in Pittsburgh.

Every chance that they get, no matter who it is, whether it’s Mike Tomlin, whether it’s Kevin Colbert, whether it’s Art II, they seem to have a much higher opinion of Mason Rudolph than the general public does in Pittsburgh, and they’re very willing to tell it to us.

And what's the long-term plan with Rudy if we part ways with Ben? Pay him 25 million on the cap for the future years? No way. The Steelers had a first round grade on Rudolph, and he was beaten out by a free agent rookie. Mistakes are made. Burns for example. Or how about Jarvis Jones? Before them Ziggy Hood. You let 1st round BUSTS play out their contract, and away they go in free agency. You don't feature them and roll the financial dice that you hope they will be good, especially at quarterback for the present and the future.

Straight up, I think Rudolph is maybe a little bit better than average as a back up. And he's on a winning team. On an average team, embrace the suck, because you'll get it.

Questions:

1 ) How many games did he win when he wasn't in the plus common on the turnovers? I'd like to know

Did you know? The small-handed Rudolph started 9 games. He has fumbled 4 times, with 10 interceptions. A lot for 9 games starting. Extrapolated over 16, now 17 games you get 20 Interceptions, and 8 fumbles. Maybe more. He completed 61.7% of his passes, and had not thrown for many yards. His style is check down. Fellas, you can't win like this.

Those in the building should know better, and the author of this article really does not know what they think. If Rooney, Colbert or Tomlin say anything is pre contract negation its to press on Ben period. If they are really that high on Mason, Ben is out. But they are trying to cut a deal with Ben because they know the gap between the two, even with Ben being 39 this season is huge.

[Eich]

With a good offensive line, I think Rudolph could have a very solid season. Keep his passing attempts under 35/game and he could manage a game very well IMO. His deep ball accuracy would keep defenses from crowding the line.

The single most important thing to fix is the offensive line IMO. Everything else on offense improves dramatically with that.

[NorthCoast]

And what's the long-term plan with Rudy if we part ways with Ben? Pay him 25 million on the cap for the future years? No way. The Steelers had a first round grade on Rudolph, and he was beaten out by a free agent rookie. Mistakes are made. Burns for example. Or how about Jarvis Jones? Before them Ziggy Hood. You let 1st round BUSTS play out their contract, and away they go in free agency. You don't feature them and roll the financial dice that you hope they will be good, especially at quarterback for the present and the future.

Straight up, I think Rudolph is maybe a little bit better than average as a back up. And he's on a winning team. On an average team, embrace the suck, because you'll get it.

Questions:

1 ) How many games did he win when he wasn't in the plus common on the turnovers? I'd like to know

Did you know? The small-handed Rudolph started 9 games. He has fumbled 4 times, with 10 interceptions. A lot for 9 games starting. Extrapolated over 16, now 17 games you get 20 Interceptions, and 8 fumbles. Maybe more. He completed 61.7% of his passes, and had not thrown for many yards. His style is check down. Fellas, you can't win like this.

Those in the building should know better, and the author of this article really does not know what they think. If Rooney, Colbert or Tomlin say anything is pre contract negation its to press on Ben period. If they are really that high on Mason, Ben is out. But they are trying to cut a deal with Ben because they know the gap between the two, even with Ben being 39 this season is huge.

First, Rudolph's fumbles and INTs should be concern. Two things on that, first I think part of the fumbles were general pocket awareness on where pressure is coming from. This should get better with experience. On the INTs, I wouldn't be surprised with Fichnter as OC that he was asking Rudolph to run Roethlisberger's offense instead of tailoring to Rudolph.
Checkdown Charlie? Watch the last game he started and tell me that. Those in the building DO know better. Finally, why in the world would the Steelers find any need to 'press on Ben'? He's already said he doesn't care about the money this season. If it was a bluff, they can simply cut him. Roethlisberger is holding very few cards in this negotiation.

Finally, finally; the stigma of moving on from a decorated QB I think is a lot less these days. Manning, Brady both moved on from their drafting teams. The Steelers hopefully understand this as the new NFL world.

[Eich]

damn.. sad but true.

It is sad and true. At the same time, I feel like the 2020 season wasn't all that fair to Ben. He was coming off elbow surgery and still lead the team to an 11-0 start. But the offense never evolved, was EXTREMELY predicable and the blueprint to stifle it was out by mid-season and very easy for teams to implement in the last quarter of the season.

The offensive line was offensive. The passing game was short and quick and predicable. Then Ben starts to press, throw 50+ times/game and throw picks. It was all setup to fail by the end of the season. Maybe the lack of offensive evolution was on Ben. And if that's true, then we need a coordinator who doesn't placate Ben.

No matter what QB starts for us in 2021, the line has to be fixed or we're going nowhere. I would expect the defensive game plan against us to be exactly the same until we show we can exploit it. Crowd the line. Pressure the QB and stop the run. If the line can't protect or run-block, there isn't an available QB in the league that could drag this team to a playoff win.

[Northern_Blitz]

And what's the long-term plan with Rudy if we part ways with Ben? Pay him 25 million on the cap for the future years? No way. The Steelers had a first round grade on Rudolph, and he was beaten out by a free agent rookie. Mistakes are made. Burns for example. Or how about Jarvis Jones? Before them Ziggy Hood. You let 1st round BUSTS play out their contract, and away they go in free agency. You don't feature them and roll the financial dice that you hope they will be good, especially at quarterback for the present and the future.

Straight up, I think Rudolph is maybe a little bit better than average as a back up. And he's on a winning team. On an average team, embrace the suck, because you'll get it.

Questions:

1 ) How many games did he win when he wasn't in the plus common on the turnovers? I'd like to know

Did you know? The small-handed Rudolph started 9 games. He has fumbled 4 times, with 10 interceptions. A lot for 9 games starting. Extrapolated over 16, now 17 games you get 20 Interceptions, and 8 fumbles. Maybe more. He completed 61.7% of his passes, and had not thrown for many yards. His style is check down. Fellas, you can't win like this.

Those in the building should know better, and the author of this article really does not know what they think. If Rooney, Colbert or Tomlin say anything is pre contract negation its to press on Ben period. If they are really that high on Mason, Ben is out. But they are trying to cut a deal with Ben because they know the gap between the two, even with Ben being 39 this season is huge.

I would imagine that there is no long term plan with Rudolph based on his play so far.

In this case you let him play.

If he does well, try to sign him to a moderate contract because he doesn't have much track record. If he walks because someone overpays him, we'll get a 3rd round comp.

If he does really well, tag him (transition to retain right of first refusal with lower salary?) and try to work out a longer term deal.

If he does poorly, use the high draft pick to take a QB. I think this is the likely result.

And if we get about halfway through the season and he is only OK (or worse), go to Haskins and see if you can accelerate the tank (or find a gem).

[NorthCoast]

It is sad and true. At the same time, I feel like the 2020 season wasn't all that fair to Ben. He was coming off elbow surgery and still lead the team to an 11-0 start. But the offense never evolved, was EXTREMELY predicable and the blueprint to stifle it was out by mid-season and very easy for teams to implement in the last quarter of the season.

The offensive line was offensive. The passing game was short and quick and predicable. Then Ben starts to press, throw 50+ times/game and throw picks. It was all setup to fail by the end of the season. Maybe the lack of offensive evolution was on Ben. And if that's true, then we need a coordinator who doesn't placate Ben.

No matter what QB starts for us in 2021, the line has to be fixed or we're going nowhere. I would expect the defensive game plan against us to be exactly the same until we show we can exploit it. Crowd the line. Pressure the QB and stop the run. If the line can't protect or run-block, there isn't an available QB in the league that could drag this team to a playoff win.

What if Roethlisberger can't/doesn't want to run a modern offense (i.e, go under center, read/run options)? This is the discussion going on within the Steelers org.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

First, Rudolph's fumbles and INTs should be concern. Two things on that, first I think part of the fumbles were general pocket awareness on where pressure is coming from. This should get better with experience. On the INTs, I wouldn't be surprised with Fichnter as OC that he was asking Rudolph to run Roethlisberger's offense instead of tailoring to Rudolph.
Checkdown Charlie? Watch the last game he started and tell me that. Those in the building DO know better. Finally, why in the world would the Steelers find any need to 'press on Ben'? He's already said he doesn't care about the money this season. If it was a bluff, they can simply cut him. Roethlisberger is holding very few cards in this negotiation.

Finally, finally; the stigma of moving on from a decorated QB I think is a lot less these days. Manning, Brady both moved on from their drafting teams. The Steelers hopefully understand this as the new NFL world.

Yes his ball security and interceptions are a concern. He's not throwing against big 12 defenses anymore. No I disagree, his ball security sucks and when hit he just doesn't hold on to it well at all.

Which game if any did he win when we were in the minus or even of the turnovers? Vs Whom?

He is check down Charlie. One game, vs. the Browns doesn't mean much. I am talking about 9 games as a starter. If he does start next year, he's going do it with a shaky OL with no running game, a decline from what he had in 2019, so I think his #'s could be worse.

Both Brady and Manning wanted out and could leave. Ben is still under contact. Nobody wants to trade for Ben at 41 million. A fact. The Steelers won't be paying him that amount either. Ben's getting 19 million if cut, and could probably get a lower paying gig elsewhere. He has the leverage, not the Steelers.

When Ben says money does not matter, I'm calling 100% BS. Just restructure then and take massive pay cut allowing the Steelers a lot of cap room and you can stay another year. I don't see that happening, because obviously he knows what he gets if CUT and he probably gets as a free agent couple start elsewhere. ie: More Money.

So he wants 25 million or more. My @ss the money doesn't matter. Play for less and give your team so cap space if it doesn't.

The crux of the matter is this. He can retire ( We should be so lucky as it clears up a lot of space on the cap ) or he can restructure and play at the amount he's worth for a year and learn a new system or the Steelers can cut him, and he'll latch on elsewhere.

Back to Rudolph, how exactly can you tailor an offense to him? He's got an average RN at best, is not very accurate ( Even with safe passes mixed in ), has ball control issues and interception issues. He's not a running QB. He is what he is, and IMO no offensive coordinate can put in a system where he will shine. I not sure, maybe Haskins will beat him out. At least he has an arm. Not that I think he's the answer either.

I say rip off the bandage off at this point, and draft a QB in round one or two with the intention of starting him as a rookie. We are not wining this season, so why let a 39 year old QB who be gone soon suck the life our your cap when you super bowl dreams are over and need to re-build? I'm sure Tomlin want him back to avoid a losing season with his contract above to expire. Colbert probably does not.

[Starlifter]

I work under a collective agreement and I've negotiated many contracts. While the NFL is not the same as aviation - one thing you can be sure of, it's always about money. When people say they want anything other than money, it's simply not true. Better quality of life? Pay me more and i'll have it. Better health care? Pay me more and I'll find it. Better schedule? Pay me more and I'll have the luxury of taking off as much time as I need.

So while all the reasons above are interesting and have some merit - the simple truth is, Ben wants to come back first and foremost for 10's of millions of dollars. Everything else is secondary. No one is hiring him to be on ESPN. No one is hiring him to be a coach. He doesn't have a chain of car dealerships or restaurants. There is nothing out there that I can see that will pay him anywhere close to a fraction of what he can make with one more year.

So winning superbowls, not ending on cleveland, boosting stats for HOF consideration are thoughts and perhaps goals - they simply pale to the goal of making another 20 million dollars.

If the Steelers will pay - he's coming back. The only number that counts is how much.

[NorthCoast]

I work under a collective agreement and I've negotiated many contracts. While the NFL is not the same as aviation - one thing you can be sure of, it's always about money. When people say they want anything other than money, it's simply not true. Better quality of life? Pay me more and i'll have it. Better health care? Pay me more and I'll find it. Better schedule? Pay me more and I'll have the luxury of taking off as much time as I need.

So while all the reasons above are interesting and have some merit - the simple truth is, Ben wants to come back first and foremost for 10's of millions of dollars. Everything else is secondary. No one is hiring him to be on ESPN. No one is hiring him to be a coach. He doesn't have a chain of car dealerships or restaurants. There is nothing out there that I can see that will pay him anywhere close to a fraction of what he can make with one more year.

So winning superbowls, not ending on cleveland, boosting stats for HOF consideration are thoughts and perhaps goals - they simply pale to the goal of making another 20 million dollars.

If the Steelers will pay - he's coming back. The only number that counts is how much.

I'm just going to assume you aren't in the category of having generational wealth in your bank account (neither am I). But when you get to that point a lot of what you are bringing up isn't even a thought to these guys. What drives a Trump?, a Brady?, a Bill Gates? Hint, it ain't money. It's ego. Roethlisberger has a quarter billion dollars in his bank account, putting him in the 1% club. Groveling for another 10% of that isn't changing his lifestyle.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

I work under a collective agreement and I've negotiated many contracts. While the NFL is not the same as aviation - one thing you can be sure of, it's always about money. When people say they want anything other than money, it's simply not true. Better quality of life? Pay me more and i'll have it. Better health care? Pay me more and I'll find it. Better schedule? Pay me more and I'll have the luxury of taking off as much time as I need.

So while all the reasons above are interesting and have some merit - the simple truth is, Ben wants to come back first and foremost for 10's of millions of dollars. Everything else is secondary. No one is hiring him to be on ESPN. No one is hiring him to be a coach. He doesn't have a chain of car dealerships or restaurants. There is nothing out there that I can see that will pay him anywhere close to a fraction of what he can make with one more year.

So winning superbowls, not ending on cleveland, boosting stats for HOF consideration are thoughts and perhaps goals - they simply pale to the goal of making another 20 million dollars.

If the Steelers will pay - he's coming back. The only number that counts is how much.

100%. One thing, if Ben get cut and takes 19 million from the Steelers, he sure can start elsewhere for say 15 million million year, netting him say 19 + 15 = 34 million to play ball next season. We are NOT paying him 34 million to play next year. I'm 100% sure his agent is on the phone, and a team like the Chicago Bears might do this deal as Ben on their cap for 15 million makes sense. On our cap for 41 million, no way! We cut him and save a lot, issuing him a check for 19 million not to play for the Steelers. This is what happens when you kick the can on an older expensive player.

Its about the money, and if Ben really didn't care he's reduces what he making big time. Like you said he doesn't own any pizza chains, or car dealerships. Thanks for the post Starlifter, I have negotiated half million dollar deals. It's always about the t's and c's. THE MONEY. Unless you catch a credit defunct sucker badly in need, and you usually find these types, to be politically correct in badly run urban areas who are oh so tardy issuing PO's and by the time you get it, the cost has gone way down. I once took pity on such an origination and threw in a free weeks of service for the heck of it, on me.

[Starlifter]

I'm just going to assume you aren't in the category of having generational wealth in your bank account (neither am I). But when you get to that point a lot of what you are bringing up isn't even a thought to these guys. What drives a Trump?, a Brady?, a Bill Gates? Hint, it ain't money. It's ego. Roethlisberger has a quarter billion dollars in his bank account, putting him in the 1% club. Groveling for another 10% of that isn't changing his lifestyle.

I also don't have generational wealth - but I've been around countless that do. In the game of life for the folks who live in that zip code - the score is measured in dollars, not possessions or lifestyle etc. It's dollars.