Blame Tomlin all you want

[Northern_Blitz]

Add Mark Barron to the list.

This is an excellent example of how "first rounder" and "high talent player" aren't the same thing.

Is it really a bad thing that the team gets some kind of impact out of a 1st rounder that another team cast off?

This seems to be the opposite of the argument that you're trying to make.

Let's start with what I think will be an uncontroversial example. An example of good roster construction / coaching is when we brought in Farrior as a cast off and he became an excellent player for us.

Alualu and Haden were also written off by their teams and found success here.

Minkah is a different story because no one ever wrote off his talent. But the Miami coaching staff was so head strong / authoritarian that they pushed a their way or the highway ultimatum on him and he became a malcontent that demanded a trade. For all the talk of our HC not being able to control malcontents / locker room problems, Fitzgerald hasn't been an issue here.

So of the eight 1st rounders, 3 are reclamation projects that have worked out pretty well. Two were given up on because of their talent (at least relative to their cap hit) and was was given up on because of his attitude. All three have been solid (and sometimes spectacular) contributors to our team.

That sounds like good roster construction / coaching to me. Wouldn't you agree?

[NorthCoast]

This is an excellent example of how "first rounder" and "high talent player" aren't the same thing.

Is it really a bad thing that the team gets some kind of impact out of a 1st rounder that another team cast off?

This seems to be the opposite of the argument that you're trying to make.

Let's start with what I think will be an uncontroversial example. An example of good roster construction / coaching is when we brought in Farrior as a cast off and he became an excellent player for us.

Alualu and Haden were also written off by their teams and found success here.

Minkah is a different story because no one ever wrote off his talent. But the Miami coaching staff was so head strong / authoritarian that they pushed a their way or the highway ultimatum on him and he became a malcontent that demanded a trade. For all the talk of our HC not being able to control malcontents / locker room problems, Fitzgerald hasn't been an issue here.

So of the eight 1st rounders, 3 are reclamation projects that have worked out pretty well. Two were given up on because of their talent (at least relative to their cap hit) and was was given up on because of his attitude. All three have been solid (and sometimes spectacular) contributors to our team.

That sounds like good roster construction / coaching to me. Wouldn't you agree?

that was my point to whatever, but you stated it very nicely. Apparently we shouldn't have gone after Haden, Fitz, Alualu, etc. cause we had too many first rounders already.

[whatever]

you said there were 11 first rounders.

another lie to further your false narratives and agendas.

Are you gonna be a man?

[whatever]

that was my point to whatever, but you stated it very nicely. Apparently we shouldn't have gone after Haden, Fitz, Alualu, etc. cause we had too many first rounders already.

How do you get ‘apparently we shouldn’t have gone after them’?

Apparently other HC don’t need 8 first rounders on their defense to perform at a high level. Others seem to develop later round talent and scheme to produce and win in the post season.

Would you expect more from a team filled with 1st round picks compared to a team with later round picks?

[hawaiiansteel]

that was my point to whatever, but you stated it very nicely. Apparently we shouldn't have gone after Haden, Fitz, Alualu, etc. cause we had too many first rounders already.

yeah, it's important to check what round a free agent was drafted in by another team before signing him to a contract.

hilarious.

[Northern_Blitz]

How do you get ‘apparently we shouldn’t have gone after them’?

Apparently other HC don’t need 8 first rounders on their defense to perform at a high level. Others seem to develop later round talent and scheme to produce and win in the post season.

Would you expect more from a team filled with 1st round picks compared to a team with later round picks?

There are way more factors to think about than just where guys were drafted.

For example:

What year were they drafted? Do you think Mahomes and Ben are equal because they're both 1st round picks?

What position were they drafted? Do you think Miles Garrett and Reuben Foster are equal because they're both 1st round picks?

Are they still with the team that drafted them? Is Alualu the same as Watt (note this also fits for year they were drafted in)?

Draft grade is a poor stand in for actual talent. I'd imagine that you would agree that this is true. I assume that you think that Edmunds and Fitzgerald aren't equivalent players (and both are better than Jarvis Jones was).

[whatever]

yeah, it's important to check what round a free agent was drafted in by another team before signing him to a contract.

hilarious.

Still waiting for you to put your money where your lies are.
Be a man.

[whatever]

There are way more factors to think about than just where guys were drafted.

For example:

What year were they drafted? Do you think Mahomes and Ben are equal because they're both 1st round picks?

What position were they drafted? Do you think Miles Garrett and Reuben Foster are equal because they're both 1st round picks?

Are they still with the team that drafted them? Is Alualu the same as Watt (note this also fits for year they were drafted in)?

Draft grade is a poor stand in for actual talent. I'd imagine that you would agree that this is true. I assume that you think that Edmunds and Fitzgerald aren't equivalent players (and both are better than Jarvis Jones was).

I agree and understand there are other factors.
Would you expect more out of a team full of first rounders or later round picks?
If round doesn’t matter, than why are fans ok with cutting 5-7th rounders.
If round doesn’t matter why do teams hang on to early round picks longer than later round? Why do they give them more time to develop?

[Northern_Blitz]

I agree and understand there are other factors.
Would you expect more out of a team full of first rounders or later round picks?
If round doesn’t matter, than why are fans ok with cutting 5-7th rounders.
If round doesn’t matter why do teams hang on to early round picks longer than later round? Why do they give them more time to develop?

If I had no other information, I would expect the 1st rounders to be better.

But I wouldn't have much confidence in my prediction.

I think pedigree is a bad way of predicting talent (outside of something like the top 10). Drafting is no where near an exact science and I think the gap between players gets smaller as you progress further.

I generally think that the salary cap has a way of evening out the talent across teams.

I think outliers up and down are probably mostly based on draft success for guys still on rookie contracts, successful reclamation of guys pulled off the scrap heap, and how much dead cap hit teams are carrying in a given year.

Of those three things, my guess is that reclamation is more about coaching and that the other two are more about roster construction.

[hawaiiansteel]

Be a man.

yes, I'm the man.

and you're a troll.

that's been pretty much proven way before you decided to start posting again the day the Steelers lost in the playoffs.

[whatever]

yes, I'm the man.

and you're a troll.

that's been pretty much proven way before you decided to start posting again the day the Steelers lost in the playoffs.

So you are taking the bet?
You say you’re a man.
Man up then or tuck tail as usual.

[NorthCoast]

There are way more factors to think about than just where guys were drafted.

For example:

What year were they drafted? Do you think Mahomes and Ben are equal because they're both 1st round picks?

What position were they drafted? Do you think Miles Garrett and Reuben Foster are equal because they're both 1st round picks?

Are they still with the team that drafted them? Is Alualu the same as Watt (note this also fits for year they were drafted in)?

Draft grade is a poor stand in for actual talent. I'd imagine that you would agree that this is true. I assume that you think that Edmunds and Fitzgerald aren't equivalent players (and both are better than Jarvis Jones was).

I like this one; all first rounders in the same draft:

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I like this one; all first rounders in the same draft:

On that chart does "QB hits" include with his own helmet?

[Northern_Blitz]

I like this one; all first rounders in the same draft:

What a great pick.

Can't believe how I was worried that we made the choice with too much thought to bloodlines.

An amazing player...although he kind of screws up my argument as an anecdote here

If I ever get another jersey it will be Watt I think.

[hawaiiansteel]

So you are taking the bet?
You say you’re a man.
Man up then or tuck tail as usual.

do I need to quote where you said we had 11 starters on defense again?

you're nothing but a useless troll.