Don't sleep on Dallas

[flippy]

I thought last year's 8-8 season was Tomlin's finest job of coaching.

however, some will only look at that we didn't win the Super Bowl so he should be fired.

I don’t think some hate Tomlin to the level you think they do. I sense frustration when we underperform vs expectations.

And on the flip side of last season, I think people overrated Tomlin for an 8-8 season because many expected nothing without Ben.

Tomlin’s neither as good or bad as most say. And having listened to Tomlin enough times, I tend to think he’d agree with that. I think Tomlin is pretty calm, cool, and collected. He’s a rock that consistently performs like we would expect him to. And players respond to him because he’s consistent and a player’s coach.

His success is determined by the quality of players and coaches around him. He seems to do better when surrounded by quality. I don’t see him as a play calling guru or a guy that quickly adapts. He often goes back to what he knows and tries to simplify football and much like many Steeler coaches before him, you know what to expect and he’s going to try and beat you straight up with his strengths.

A lot of times he’s a slow starter. He’s bad at clock management. He’s struggled in the playoffs. He’s struggled preparing his team for teams he should beat. His unleashing of hell is a running joke. And he’s slow to change wether it’s an ineffective Oline or DBs or punters.

But he deals well with adversity. And he gets a lot out of guys others may not.

I don’t know where he lands on talent evaluation, but I think he likes to gamble and it’s why we end up reaching more sometimes. Sometimes it works out. Other times it doesn’t.

Overall he’s sound. I think he’s one of the best leaders in the NFL. I like the guy a ton. And I totally get why some love him while he drives others nuts.

I think it’s ok to get frustrated with people you like/love. Just ask any married person. Everything is a shade of gray.

[whisper]

indeed. Some used the losing streak at the end to bash him but even being in a position to make the playoffs was proof Tomlin and company did a great job.

It was ugly but it worked given what we were working with last year.

Look at NE without a few key players. Straight trash and the coach is making excuses.

A "few key players?" The had 8 opt out from covid just for starters, and they lost the GOAT QB in the history of the NFL. They should go 0-16.

[fordfixer]

Steelers 2 Cowboys 0

[feltdizz]

A "few key players?" The had 8 opt out from covid just for starters, and they lost the GOAT QB in the history of the NFL. They should go 0-16.

No sympathy. They lost Brady, we lost Ben last year. We also lost AB due to craziness, Tuitt, Conner, Dionte, JuJu, Mason, Nix, etc for stretches last year.

Billicheat blames their lack of depth on their aggressive cap spending.

The real issue is they got away with paying players on the cheap at a lot of positions and without Brady these guys look pedestrian. Hell, last year part of the reason the faded down the stretch is their lack of talent on offense.

But how many other head coaches use this excuse when losing? He needs to suck it up and take his lumps.

Nothing last forever.

[hawaiiansteel]

I don’t think some hate Tomlin to the level you think they do.

just look at Steel Maniac's sig.

we're 7-0 and he still wants Tomlin fired.

[Steel Maniac]

I don’t think some hate Tomlin to the level you think they do. I sense frustration when we underperform vs expectations.

And on the flip side of last season, I think people overrated Tomlin for an 8-8 season because many expected nothing without Ben.

Tomlin’s neither as good or bad as most say. And having listened to Tomlin enough times, I tend to think he’d agree with that. I think Tomlin is pretty calm, cool, and collected. He’s a rock that consistently performs like we would expect him to. And players respond to him because he’s consistent and a player’s coach.

His success is determined by the quality of players and coaches around him. He seems to do better when surrounded by quality. I don’t see him as a play calling guru or a guy that quickly adapts. He often goes back to what he knows and tries to simplify football and much like many Steeler coaches before him, you know what to expect and he’s going to try and beat you straight up with his strengths.

A lot of times he’s a slow starter. He’s bad at clock management. He’s struggled in the playoffs. He’s struggled preparing his team for teams he should beat. His unleashing of hell is a running joke. And he’s slow to change wether it’s an ineffective Oline or DBs or punters.

But he deals well with adversity. And he gets a lot out of guys others may not.

I don’t know where he lands on talent evaluation, but I think he likes to gamble and it’s why we end up reaching more sometimes. Sometimes it works out. Other times it doesn’t.

Overall he’s sound. I think he’s one of the best leaders in the NFL. I like the guy a ton. And I totally get why some love him while he drives others nuts.

I think it’s ok to get frustrated with people you like/love. Just ask any married person. Everything is a shade of gray.

Thank you Flippy; You’ve stated it perfectly.

[hawaiiansteel]

Thank you Flippy; You’ve stated it perfectly.

nice sig, we're 7-0 and you still want Tomlin fired

[Northern_Blitz]

I don’t think some hate Tomlin to the level you think they do. I sense frustration when we underperform vs expectations.

And on the flip side of last season, I think people overrated Tomlin for an 8-8 season because many expected nothing without Ben.

Tomlin’s neither as good or bad as most say. And having listened to Tomlin enough times, I tend to think he’d agree with that. I think Tomlin is pretty calm, cool, and collected. He’s a rock that consistently performs like we would expect him to. And players respond to him because he’s consistent and a player’s coach.

His success is determined by the quality of players and coaches around him. He seems to do better when surrounded by quality. I don’t see him as a play calling guru or a guy that quickly adapts. He often goes back to what he knows and tries to simplify football and much like many Steeler coaches before him, you know what to expect and he’s going to try and beat you straight up with his strengths.

A lot of times he’s a slow starter. He’s bad at clock management. He’s struggled in the playoffs. He’s struggled preparing his team for teams he should beat. His unleashing of hell is a running joke. And he’s slow to change wether it’s an ineffective Oline or DBs or punters.

But he deals well with adversity. And he gets a lot out of guys others may not.

I don’t know where he lands on talent evaluation, but I think he likes to gamble and it’s why we end up reaching more sometimes. Sometimes it works out. Other times it doesn’t.

Overall he’s sound. I think he’s one of the best leaders in the NFL. I like the guy a ton. And I totally get why some love him while he drives others nuts.

I think it’s ok to get frustrated with people you like/love. Just ask any married person. Everything is a shade of gray.

It's funny.

My fantasy football league started to do automated recaps after every game a few year ago.

And the theme is usually about how certain players "underperformed" or "overperformed" based on their projected points.

It's worded as if that's about the player.

But it's really about the model that predicted the outcome.

If the team exceeded or didn't meet our expectations, I tend to believe that the problem is our expectations and not the team / players.

I think this is especially true in our case because we've had such insane long term success and we had very good fantasy football players with the Killer Bs. That second part means that I think a lot of people over rated our talent because we had very good skill players.

And the problem with our expectations could be (i) we think the Steelers are too good / bad or (ii) we think their opponents are too good / bad.

[NorthCoast]

How does one explain the fact that certain teams draft high year after year but continually remain as bottom dwellers? Coaching matters as much as talent. How that talent is being used was clearly demonstrated in last weekend's game. Put the talent in the wrong places and it's a fail and vice versa.

[flippy]

It's funny.

My fantasy football league started to do automated recaps after every game a few year ago.

And the theme is usually about how certain players "underperformed" or "overperformed" based on their projected points.

It's worded as if that's about the player.

But it's really about the model that predicted the outcome.

If the team exceeded or didn't meet our expectations, I tend to believe that the problem is our expectations and not the team / players.

I think this is especially true in our case because we've had such insane long term success and we had very good fantasy football players with the Killer Bs. That second part means that I think a lot of people over rated our talent because we had very good skill players.

And the problem with our expectations could be (i) we think the Steelers are too good / bad or (ii) we think their opponents are too good / bad.

Good example/point.

I would take it a step further and suggest most fans are going to have high expectations for their team. Otherwise, why be a committed fan? All the fun in life is in the anticipation.

Since fans are going to overrate their team, when the team wins, it’s often not good enough. And when we lose, it’s a slap in the face of your expectations. Thus it’s more natural for a super fan base that you would find on a team message board is going to be over the top negative reactions regularly.

That said, where I generally see it differently is that I think the reactions are gut reactions to mismatched expectations. But people generally aren’t negative.

This is a great whole microcosm of our lives and society more broadly. And usually what we perceive on the surface is usually the complete opposite and flipped upside down.

[Oviedo]

I don’t think some hate Tomlin to the level you think they do. I sense frustration when we underperform vs expectations.

And on the flip side of last season, I think people overrated Tomlin for an 8-8 season because many expected nothing without Ben.

Tomlin’s neither as good or bad as most say. And having listened to Tomlin enough times, I tend to think he’d agree with that. I think Tomlin is pretty calm, cool, and collected. He’s a rock that consistently performs like we would expect him to. And players respond to him because he’s consistent and a player’s coach.

His success is determined by the quality of players and coaches around him. He seems to do better when surrounded by quality. I don’t see him as a play calling guru or a guy that quickly adapts. He often goes back to what he knows and tries to simplify football and much like many Steeler coaches before him, you know what to expect and he’s going to try and beat you straight up with his strengths.

A lot of times he’s a slow starter. He’s bad at clock management. He’s struggled in the playoffs. He’s struggled preparing his team for teams he should beat. His unleashing of hell is a running joke. And he’s slow to change wether it’s an ineffective Oline or DBs or punters.

But he deals well with adversity. And he gets a lot out of guys others may not.

I don’t know where he lands on talent evaluation, but I think he likes to gamble and it’s why we end up reaching more sometimes. Sometimes it works out. Other times it doesn’t.

Overall he’s sound. I think he’s one of the best leaders in the NFL. I like the guy a ton. And I totally get why some love him while he drives others nuts.

I think it’s ok to get frustrated with people you like/love. Just ask any married person. Everything is a shade of gray.

I disagree. If you don't think there are several posters who hate Tomlin no matter what he does you're not wanting to see it. The expectations for Tomlin have been unrealistic from Day 1. By any realistic metric he has been a top 5 coach in the NFL over the past 15 year. "Unleashing hell" is on;y a running joke to those who hate him. It was an attempt to motivate his team and instill in them the task ahead. No other coach who said that would get the minority of haters continually pointing that out. If Tomlin would go 16-0 this regular season there would be those who complain. The goalposts for Tomlin are always moving.

[Shawn]

current line has the Steelers favored by 13.5

Makes sense. I was about to call O on his nonsense. I was going to say 2 TDs. They are a one dimensional O. They won't be able to score on our D with us being able to focus on Elliot.

[Northern_Blitz]

How does one explain the fact that certain teams draft high year after year but continually remain as bottom dwellers? Coaching matters as much as talent. How that talent is being used was clearly demonstrated in last weekend's game. Put the talent in the wrong places and it's a fail and vice versa.

I think there are 2 main reasons teams are consistently poor.

1. It's hard to get a good QB, so teams like the Bills cycled through lots of QBs since Kelly and didn't do very well for a long time. Now they have what looks to be a pretty good QB and they're doing fairly well (especially since another team in their division just lost an elite QB and is in the tank this year).

Roster construction extends beyond just QB. Teams with bad management do things like bringing in big name UFAs to sell tickets even though they won't ever live up to their contracts. Other teams (Bengals) refuse to spend to the cap to build a good team.


2. I think coaching is kind of like the relationship between income and happiness. Income is super important for happiness until you reach a certain threshold (usually I've seen this reported at ~ $75k / household). And you see diminishing returns after that.

Maybe the Browns coach last year was so bad that he was below that threshold and brought the team way below expectations. But even this year, I think we're seeing that the expectations aren't in line with reality. I think a big part of this is that assumptions about the talent of a team are mostly based on the FF value of their skill players (since FF is such a huge part of NFL fandom these days). Their true talent doesn't seem to be in line with projections like this (maybe mostly because Baker isn't as good as people thought he was going to be?)

[hawaiiansteel]

I disagree. If you don't think there are several posters who hate Tomlin no matter what he does you're not wanting to see it.

for proof just look at Steel Maniac's sig.

we're 7-0 and he still wants Tomlin fired.

[Steel Maniac]

How does one explain the fact that certain teams draft high year after year but continually remain as bottom dwellers? Coaching matters as much as talent. How that talent is being used was clearly demonstrated in last weekend's game. Put the talent in the wrong places and it's a fail and vice versa.

I agree with you; Coaching is as important as talent. When the Pats beat the Rams in the Super Bowl a couple of years ago was another example of that. Rams were the most talented team; Pats had the better coaches.