Just sayin...

[Captain Lemming]

A one year extension to a relatively young coach is not a vote of confidence. It’s a way of quoting players talk in the locker room about the future of the team. Players can and should remain focused on their jobs and not speculate about the coach’s future. Rooney’s put that to bed by giving him that one year extension and I applaud them for it.

I kinda agree, I think the 1 year extension IS telling. It is neither a vote of confidence NOR one that fortells an imminent dismissal.
I think they HAD great confidence in Tomlin.....it is less today.,,,for good reason.

However, I dont think he is in quite the jeopardy that you describe.

If the team trends "up" throughout the season with QB injuries (playoff caliber play, perhaps late win streak as season ends) Tomlin stays.

If the team continues to struggle.....the end is near.

[Northern_Blitz]

I kinda agree, I think the 1 year extension IS telling. It is neither a vote of confidence NOR one that fortells an imminent dismissal.
I think they HAD great confidence in Tomlin.....it is less today.,,,for good reason.

However, I dont think he is in quite the jeopardy that you describe.

If the team trends "up" throughout the season with QB injuries (playoff caliber play, perhaps late win streak as season ends) Tomlin stays.

If the team continues to struggle.....the end is near.

I think I'd describe it as a smaller vote of confidence than usual.*

I think not extending him at all would have been neutral since they still had him under contract for 2 more seasons.

It's clearly subjective though.

* Again, this assumes that the option isn't Tomlin's. If it was Tomlin's, I would probably describe it as him having little faith that the team would be good after Ben.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think I'd describe it as a smaller vote of confidence than usual.*

I think not extending him at all would have been neutral since they still had him under contract for 2 more seasons.

It's clearly subjective though.

* Again, this assumes that the option isn't Tomlin's. If it was Tomlin's, I would probably describe it as him having little faith that the team would be good after Ben.

Dug around on this a bit.

I still can't find who holds the option, but in a previous contract there was an option that was triggered by metrics and not people.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/07/new-extension-technically-not-the-first-with-an-option-year-for-mike-tomlin/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822841/article/tomlin-triggers-option-extends-contract-through-19

Apparently, Tomlin's previous contract also contained an option year.

That option year was not based on a decision by either Tomlin or the Steelers, but on the number of wins the Steelers amassed during the contract.

From the Depot Article:
Dulac Tweet: Per source: Mike Tomlin actually had an option year in the contract previous to existing one that was triggered based on number of victories. His current contract, including the extension, does not include that type of incentive.

Then from the text in the article:
The problem is that this is not new information (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822841/article/tomlin-triggers-option-extends-contract-through-19). We knew this at least back in 2017, according to an article on NFL.com (http://nfl.com/), with Conor Orr relaying information reported by Ian Rapoport that he, following a 11-5 regular season record in 2016, had triggered the option for the 2019 season. In other words, Tomlin actually entered the 2017 season with three years remaining on his contract, following the option being triggered by hitting a specific win total.
The relevant bit that Dulac did share is in saying that this option year is unlike the previous one that he successfully triggered in 2016. It appears that this one is either a club or coach option (one would guess club option) rather than one passed on achieving some incentive.

So, the previous contract was extended based on number of wins. But, it sounds like that's not how this one works. Although I think it's weird that he'd know that the option definitely isn't triggered by wins, but he doesn't know if it's held by the team or the coach. Wonder if the wins part is speculation too?

I still haven't found anything concrete saying who's option it is now. I think most articles I've seen that say it's a team option point back to Dulac's speculation that it's probably a team option instead of a coach option. Again, I think that makes sense. But, if I was a successful coach who'd worked my whole career with a successful GM and a successful QB, I could see wanting to maybe contractually protect myself in a contract that covers a period of time where it's likely both would retire.

I could also see the team wanting to preserve the option to change coaches in that situation too (although they always have the option to terminate...they just have to pay in that case).

[Steel Maniac]

I kinda agree, I think the 1 year extension IS telling. It is neither a vote of confidence NOR one that fortells an imminent dismissal.
I think they HAD great confidence in Tomlin.....it is less today.,,,for good reason.

However, I dont think he is in quite the jeopardy that you describe.

If the team trends "up" throughout the season with QB injuries (playoff caliber play, perhaps late win streak as season ends) Tomlin stays.

If the team continues to struggle.....the end is near.

Yep;....it's like a fence sitting deal with management. I totally agree. Their (management) is waiting to see. We play the Chargers , go on bye, then we beat Miami (tanking dolphins). What we do against Indy, Rams and Browns will be tell tales.

[Oh wow]

At 15 or 16 years I think any coach not named Bilicheck is going to probably be on shorter extensions.

Sean Payton just signed a 5 year extension but he’s also the most winningest coach in Saints history, got them their first SB and damn near owns New Orleans.

[Steel Maniac]

At 15 or 16 years I think any coach not named Bilicheck is going to probably be on shorter extensions.

Sean Payton just signed a 5 year extension but he’s also the most winningest coach in Saints history, got them their first SB and damn near owns New Orleans.

Sean Payton got a 5 year extension because he's a good coach. Better then Tomlin. Again, what is the one thing Tomlin is good at? Nothing.

Sean Payton is good at QB development and offensive development. He's proven that as an assistant and as a head coach.

[NorthCoast]

Sean Payton got a 5 year extension because he's a good coach. Better then Tomlin. Again, what is the one thing Tomlin is good at? Nothing.

Sean Payton is good at QB development and offensive development. He's proven that as an assistant and as a head coach.

Maniac, Tomlin would be unemployed for about 3.2 seconds. What you don't value is obviously coveted by a lot of other teams.

[Northern_Blitz]

Sean Payton got a 5 year extension because he's a good coach. Better then Tomlin. Again, what is the one thing Tomlin is good at? Nothing.

Sean Payton is good at QB development and offensive development. He's proven that as an assistant and as a head coach.

Sean Peyton has basically the same record as Tomlin. They've also both had HoF caliber QBs for their entire tenure.

If Peyton is a lot better than Tomlin at something important, it seems reasonable that Tomlin must be better than Peyton at something of about equal importance since they've had about the same results in similar situations.

The logic for firing Tomlin would have fired Peyton sometime between 2012 - 2016 where they went 7 - 9 for 4 / 5 seasons (although one of those seasons Peyton wasn't the coach because he was suspended by the league and cost his team $500k and 2 x 2nd round picks).

Can you imagine what this board would be like after a 5 year stretch like that?

[Oh wow]

Sean Payton got a 5 year extension because he's a good coach. Better then Tomlin. Again, what is the one thing Tomlin is good at? Nothing.

Sean Payton is good at QB development and offensive development. He's proven that as an assistant and as a head coach.

How does someone not good at anything have so many wins?

If Sean Payton is so much better than Tomlin where are his multiple rings?

How did NO go 7-9 for 3 straight seasons with Sean Payton if he is so much better?

That’s the problem with these arguments. You praise other coaches like Payton yet ignore all his terrible seasons and non playoff years.

[steelz09]

How does someone not good at anything have so many wins?

If Sean Payton is so much better than Tomlin where are his multiple rings?

How did NO go 7-9 for 3 straight seasons with Sean Payton if he is so much better?

That’s the problem with these arguments. You praise other coaches like Payton yet ignore all his terrible seasons and non playoff years.

Offense is Payton's specialty.... As a HC, his offense has not only been solid but a bit evolutionary as situations demanded. He has evaluated talent well.

Secondary is Tomlin's specialty....As a HC, the secondary has been pathetic and incompetent. Confused. He is unable to evaluate, draft and develop talent.

They got hired as HC because of their specialty. One looks legit. The other looks like a fraud.

[Northern_Blitz]

Offense is Payton's specialty.... As a HC, his offense has not only been solid but a bit evolutionary as situations demanded. He has evaluated talent well.

Secondary is Tomlin's specialty....As a HC, the secondary has been pathetic and incompetent. Confused. He is unable to evaluate, draft and develop talent.


They got hired as HC because of their specialty. One looks legit. The other looks like a fraud.

Let's look at Tomlin's defensive ranking throughout his career to see if this argument is reasonable. I'll leave out this year because it's not finished yet.

Data from: pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/index.htm

Year	D Rank (points)	D Rank (yards)
2018	16	6
2017	7	5
2016	10	12
2015	11	21
2014	18	18
2013	14	13
2012	6	1
2011	1	1
2010	1	2
2009	12	5
2008	1	1
2007	2	1
2006*	11	9

* 2006 is included to show what Cowher did with "Cowher's players" (because we all know it's coming).

So in 12 full seasons, Tomlin's D's have been:

Top 16 D: 11/12 in points, 11/12 in yards
Top 10 D: 6/12 in points, 8/12 in yards
Top 5 D: 4/12 in points, 7/12 in yards
Numero Uno: 3/12 in points, 4/12 in yards

Seems like that's not such a bad run for a guy who's specialty is defense.

I think the actual data makes the "Tomlin is a bad defensive coach" argument look like a bad argument. I guess the way to really test that would be to compare his results above to other coaches who are considered to be "good defensive coaches".

Let's take a quick look at Pete Carroll (brought up earlier as a good D coach). If you look at the same site for the Seahawks data, he had several years with 1 - 4 rankings, but has been outside of the top 10 the last two full seasons. My guess is that this coincides with loss of talent on D coinciding with having to pay his QB a market level deal instead of a rookie one. Tomlin had one year of Ben on a rookie contract (signed contract 2 in 2008 ). So he didn't get to play on "easy mode" very long.

You can clearly see when we started to rebuild the D. Missing on 1st round picks has hurt us IMO. But I think that's more about reaching than thinking that coaches turn guys who aren't that good into super stars.

I think that the talent on D hasn't been there as much in the last few years (particularly post-Shazier).

I also think that Butler isn't as good a DC as LeBeau. But like we're seeing from Butler now, better players make better coaches.

It's like the hockey saying "show me a team with a good coach, and I'll show you a team with a good goalie".

[Oviedo]

Sean Payton got a 5 year extension because he's a good coach. Better then Tomlin. Again, what is the one thing Tomlin is good at? Nothing.

Sean Payton is good at QB development and offensive development. He's proven that as an assistant and as a head coach.

So you think Payton "developed" Drew Brees???? That pretty much sdays everything about your POV.

And I'm sure you realize he has had 5 non-winning seasons in New Orleans WITH a "franchise QB" widely regarded at top 2 in the NFL...and has one less Super Bowl appearance than Tomlin.

[Steel Maniac]

Maniac, Tomlin would be unemployed for about 3.2 seconds. What you don't value is obviously coveted by a lot of other teams.

So was Jim Caldwell, So was Norv Turner, So was Jack Del Rio. Coaches are recycled. That doesn't prove your a legit coach just because you come back recycled.

[Northern_Blitz]

So was Jim Caldwell, So was Norv Turner, So was Jack Del Rio. Coaches are recycled. That doesn't prove your a legit coach just because you come back recycled.

I agree.

I think two things show that you're a good coach:
1) You have a high win percentage.
2) Your teams play hard even in crappy situations (like after you get down by 2 TDs in a playoff game against a generationally good defense).

[Steel Maniac]

How does someone not good at anything have so many wins?

Because he came into the most stable management in the NFL. And...he took Cowhers coaches and players. He got a great start from that. You also have to factor in that the Browns and the Bengals are our versions of the Dolphins and the Jets.

But what has happened as he's moved away from those Cowher coaches and players? Look at how all the playoff wins went away after Cowher's coaches & players left?

Because