Wow, next year

[ikestops85]

and 5 or 6 years ago many were on this board arguing that we needed defensive linemen who could penetrate and guys like Casey Hampton were a thing of the past. You put in a guy like Hampton and Brady goes no-huddle and the NT is on his knees trying to get a breath. It is funny how, no matter what they do, the front office and coaches are wrong based on somebodies viewpoint.

[Oh wow]

and 5 or 6 years ago many were on this board arguing that we needed defensive linemen who could penetrate and guys like Casey Hampton were a thing of the past. You put in a guy like Hampton and Brady goes no-huddle and the NT is on his knees trying to get a breath. It is funny how, no matter what they do, the front office and coaches are wrong based on somebodies viewpoint.

See, I never agreed with this.

When we played the Pats this year and tried to go no huddle how did that work out for us?

Did their NT fall over and pass out?

Nope. More than likely he subbed out or he was the reason Ben couldn’t step up in the pocket.

It’s not rocket science. It’s football. If anyone completes 10 passes on us using the no huddle to keep our NT on the field we got bigger problems in the secondary.

Cover the WR, prevent the QB from stepping up on the pocket and get the sack or force a bad throw.

how about this for another angle. How well did we do against Brady this year with a more agile NT?

[Northern_Blitz]

and 5 or 6 years ago many were on this board arguing that we needed defensive linemen who could penetrate and guys like Casey Hampton were a thing of the past. You put in a guy like Hampton and Brady goes no-huddle and the NT is on his knees trying to get a breath. It is funny how, no matter what they do, the front office and coaches are wrong based on somebodies viewpoint.

Particularly after we lost the SB to GB who used a 3-4 with a penetrating NT.

Casey was great when he played. I don't think he'd be nearly as effective in today's NFL with way fewer runs and higher tempo O. Maybe he would have just lost some mass and got more fitness though.

[Oh wow]

Can’t have it both ways. You don’t want a run stuffing NT but complain that we get gashed in the running game.

We have 53 freaking players. There is enough room for a Hampton type NT on our roster.

Especially on short yardage plays that could get our D off the field.

[whatever]

Can’t have it both ways. You don’t want a run stuffing NT but complain that we get gashed in the running game.

We have 53 freaking players. There is enough room for a Hampton type NT on our roster.

Especially on short yardage plays that could get our D off the field.

Agreed.
Play him when we face a run heavy team and bench him when we play passers.

[Mr.wizard]

basically, you just agreed that you need BOTH. and that's all i'm saying. if they get a mid-round run-stuffer, you put in a different guy depending on the matchup. same decision you might make when deciding to put VW in vs one of the quicker LBs.

Well you do and we have a heavy package, there just isnt a big market of these guys because the spread offenses and zone running schemes are making them obsolete. So guys coming up at those NT position are training to be agile and more athletic because it means they will be more likely to be on the field.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

When we played the Pats this year and tried to go no huddle how did that work out for us?

Did their NT fall over and pass out?

Why would he get tired out? He only had to stay on the field for 3 plays at a time.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Well you do and we have a heavy package, there just isnt a big market of these guys because the spread offenses and zone running schemes are making them obsolete. So guys coming up at those NT position are training to be agile and more athletic because it means they will be more likely to be on the field.

not all of them... there are plugging NT in every draft, our FO just doesn't ever look at them

[Northern_Blitz]

Can’t have it both ways. You don’t want a run stuffing NT but complain that we get gashed in the running game.

We have 53 freaking players. There is enough room for a Hampton type NT on our roster.

Especially on short yardage plays that could get our D off the field.

I guess it depends on what you mean by a "Hampton type NT".

If you mean a big run stuffer like big Dan, that I'd say yes. We can have someone big and cheap (and hopefully more effective than big Dan).

If you mean anchor of the D, probowl, large cap hit guy who doesn't play much in nickle and dime then I think the answer is no.

The 3-4 is our 3rd most common defensive formation (behind dime and nickle). I don't think we can have a big cap hit allocated to a guy who doesn't play in those formations. And I don't think we'll put a run stuffing NT in those formations when we have Heyward and Tuitt eating up a bunch of cap space.

So because of the diminishing importance of "base" defenses and the cap implications, I don't think we'll see a NT that's not on a rookie deal (or a low cost vet).

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I guess it depends on what you mean by a "Hampton type NT".

If you mean a big run stuffer like big Dan, that I'd say yes. We can have someone big and cheap (and hopefully more effective than big Dan).

If you mean anchor of the D, probowl, large cap hit guy who doesn't play much in nickle and dime then I think the answer is no.

The 3-4 is our 3rd most common defensive formation (behind dime and nickle). I don't think we can have a big cap hit allocated to a guy who doesn't play in those formations. And I don't think we'll put a run stuffing NT in those formations when we have Heyward and Tuitt eating up a bunch of cap space.

So because of the diminishing importance of "base" defenses and the cap implications, I don't think we'll see a NT that's not on a rookie deal (or a low cost vet).

but due to demand (and all the stuff you described above) those guys are getting cheaper... and easier to find in late rounds. they just choose not to take them

[Northern_Blitz]

but due to demand (and all the stuff you described above) those guys are getting cheaper... and easier to find in late rounds. they just choose not to take them

They took Dan with a late round pick (6th) to be a plugger in the middle.

It doesn't make sense to draft NT somewhat high, when we already can't play an NT that's really good for 50% of the defensive snaps.

I don't think the team will invest in two good NTs at the same time. That would be kind of like having 2 FBs (although not as extreme).

[Captain Lemming]

The best Steeler run defense of Hamptons career was 2004, the season he mostly missed. It was Hoke’s year.

Nobody can convince me that Hoke, who was smaller, slower, AND not as strong could not be EASILY replaced by Hargrave with no ill effects.

Two key differences?
1. Quality of LBers across the board.
2. What our line was ASKED to do.

That second point is HUGE. These athletic Dlinemen including Hargrave, are asked to make plays, not keep the backers clean as first priority.