Fire Mike Tomlin

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't understand that perspective tbh, why would it make it less important? It makes scheming, gameplanning and in-game adjustments all the more important since more teams are evenly matched or closer in terms of talent (there is obviously some differences). It's more important than ever for coaches to put players in positions to succeed versus just saying "this is who we are, doesn't matter who you are, stop us" which is basically Tomlin's approach.

I think it's one reason the Rams made it to the SB last season, it was a new younger coach with some new ideas.

I hate to bring up the Pats again, but were they the most talented team the years they won each SB? No. So why did they win? You can say it is an outlier but it still goes back to coaching ultimately.

QB is very important.

But if every QB I'm the league had the same skill (think all clones of Brady) then QB skill wouldn't differentiate teams at all. Since all teams have the same QB in this case, no team has a competitive advantage at that position.

If all coaches are about the same, then I don't think they matter as much.

I think talent is more varied roster to roster because scouting and signing good UFAs is generally hard and teams miss all the time. And there are so many more players than HCs. And players agree out faster than coaches do.

I think Mcvay made it to the SB because he had a cheap QB who played well. That let them spend a ton of money on D. I dint like guru coaches because I thunk they often make decisions to feed their ego instead of winning at all costs.

I think roster construction (ie talent relative to cap hit) is the most important thing in cap leagues. BB is basically the only GM / coach who's figured out his to be dominant with a franchise QB past his rookie deal. I thunk this is a combo of TB being skimming to play below market and ruthless cap management at other positions. He also a great coach who can be ridings with grange planning in a way I dint think other coaches are.

[Eich]

If Tomlin gets fired at the end of the season I will lose no sleep over it. I just doubt that the organization goes 4 for 4 and gets another great hire that so many on the board just assume will happen. Look at the coaching hires across the NFL the last three years...how many have been great successes?

While I agree with you that it's not easy to find the next great coach, I also think that a lot of the coaching hires across the NFL fail because of situations they're put into. Put Belichick back on the Clowns and I don't think you see a whole lot of difference unless he's given GM powers. Doesn't seem to matter who goes to the Bungles. The Redskins are the land where everyone goes to get paid and then fail, players and coaches.

[Oh wow]

I don't understand that perspective tbh, why would it make it less important? It makes scheming, gameplanning and in-game adjustments all the more important since more teams are evenly matched or closer in terms of talent (there is obviously some differences). It's more important than ever for coaches to put players in positions to succeed versus just saying "this is who we are, doesn't matter who you are, stop us" which is basically Tomlin's approach.

I think it's one reason the Rams made it to the SB last season, it was a new younger coach with some new ideas.

I hate to bring up the Pats again, but were they the most talented team the years they won each SB? No. So why did they win? You can say it is an outlier but it still goes back to coaching ultimately.

McVay also had Gurley, trades for Cook, had Suh on a one year deal....

It wasn’t innovation that got them to the SB. It was talent AND a blown call vs the Saints.

Now about the Pats. They have Tom freaking Brady. Anyone acting like he isn’t the difference is fooling themselves. Dude is... unfortunately the GOAT.

It’s like saying Phil Jackson had a bunch of rings because of coaching. Dude also had MJ, Pippen, Kobe and Shaq.

Is there any other coach and team who has consistently made deep playoffs runs and SB’s besides the Pats?

Seriously, constantly using the best dynasty of the last 20 years as a comparison doesn’t really help the argument against Tomlin.

[Eich]

Now about the Pats. They have Tom freaking Brady. Anyone acting like he isn’t the difference is fooling themselves. Dude is... unfortunately the GOAT.

I agree with this. Brady is the constant there. I'm surprised that teams don't go after Brady more. I know he gets rid of the ball quickly but with all their success and the way they scorch most teams anyway, why don't defenses just tee-off on Brady as often as possible? So, there's a few 15 yard penalties? Plenty of defenses pounded Ben and you could see game plans that wanted to abuse him.

I don't want to see guys hurt. But I'd sure like to see Brady play in more pain with some good bruises. He gets an awful lot closer to average when he's under pressure. I'd like to see some teams sell out with the game plan to pressure him at all costs and from all directions.

[Oh wow]

coaching wise

what does tomlin do that impresses his backers?

game plan? offensive/defensive?
half time adjustments?
timely and accurate coach's challange (lol)
time management?
control of the locker room?

when have the steelers come away with a game with the impression they've out coached the opposition.
i'll give you cincy a few times.

Personally, I know his teams will be in 99% of the games up until the final possession.

It’s extremely rare for us to get blown out or for the game to be decided by halftime.

[Steeler Mafia]

I think that the Coaching vs Talent discussion is not one over the other. Both are very important. Oh Wow used the Phil Jackson example, which is perfect for this being that my basketball mind is greater than my football mind.

Phil used the Triangle. When ran correctly, it is the most optimal way to create spacing between players and allows each one to pass to the other four. Every pass and cut has a purpose, that is dictated by what the defense gives you. Now, this offence is not of Phil's creation, but it promotes the "Two-Man" game which works very well in the NBA. When combined with the talent of an MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, all who bought in to the system, the result was over 1000 victories and 11 NBA championships. Remove that talent, the results would be much less. The talent alone surely would have won games. The scheme would as well. However, when the two are put together, the results are way more successful.

Lets go back to Football. Belichick's coaching and schemes have proven to be successful. But, you put Tom Brady at the helm and add the talent of a Gronk or Edelman (etc) then the success goes up exponentially. While one or the other is nice to have, BOTH are a luxury that produces the greater results.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I agree with this. Brady is the constant there. I'm surprised that teams don't go after Brady more. I know he gets rid of the ball quickly but with all their success and the way they scorch most teams anyway, why don't defenses just tee-off on Brady as often as possible? So, there's a few 15 yard penalties? Plenty of defenses pounded Ben and you could see game plans that wanted to abuse him.

I don't want to see guys hurt. But I'd sure like to see Brady play in more pain with some good bruises. He gets an awful lot closer to average when he's under pressure. I'd like to see some teams sell out with the game plan to pressure him at all costs and from all directions.

You gotta give him credit for avoiding it. Our defense put Jimmy G on his back at lot last week and we hit Russell Wilson a ton the week before as well. But Brady's jersey barely needed to be laundered after facing us in week one.

[Captain Lemming]

coaching wise

what does tomlin do that impresses his backers?

Win games.
Of current coaches with 100 or more games he is second only to BB in not just wins but winning percentage.

Nowhere near Noll and his NINE hofers in the pre cap era in postseason successs, but he have the best overall win percentage in Steeler history.

I know you guys will feel compelled to parse that up to fit a narrative, his recent failures open up the discussion for change but it is EASY to see why the Rooneys are FAR LESS quick to panic than many fans are.

[Mick'sTeam]

Personally, I know his teams will be in 99% of the games up until the final possession.

It’s extremely rare for us to get blown out or for the game to be decided by halftime.

No offense, but that sounds like saying "losing is easier because the game was close." And really, when that week 1 game against the Pats was 10-0, from what you saw, did you really think we were still in it? That 10-0 lead or whatever it was felt insurmountable with how we were playing on both sides. Add in the fact that I don't recall the last time I felt Tomlin and our coaching staff made a meaningful and impactful in-game adjustment.

[Oh wow]

No offense, but that sounds like saying "losing is easier because the game was close." And really, when that week 1 game against the Pats was 10-0, from what you saw, did you really think we were still in it? That 10-0 lead or whatever it was felt insurmountable with how we were playing on both sides. Add in the fact that I don't recall the last time I felt Tomlin and our coaching staff made a meaningful and impactful in-game adjustment.

That’s why I said 99% of the time.

Foxboro is pretty much the only place where I’ve get like we had no shot to win.

That’s a RARE feeling and I don’t think anyone can deny that.

Losing is NEVER easier when the games are close because you know you had a real chance to win it.

Blowouts don’t hurt as much because you can burn the tape, pack it in and start the bus...

Our 8th grade basketball team was terrible. We didn’t win any games. I don’t remember any of the losses except the one where we lost by 1. I remember every last second loss and every last second win I’ve ever experienced while playing sports

I barely remember the blowouts.

Anyways... if you don’t remember any in game adjustments I think it’s because you haven’t been paying attention or just don’t want to give the staff credit.

I know it’s been rough lately but hell, first half we dink and dunk, second half we have 2 long passing TD’s.

Since we didn’t win folks won’t say adjustments didn’t work but they were made.

[Steel Maniac]

coaching wise

what does tomlin do that impresses his backers?

That's the whole point; you can't point to one thing he does well.
Not development of players in the secondary (hasn't developed a secondary player drafted by him in 12 years)
Not "X"s and "O"

And any winning that has been done has obviously been done by good assistant coaches. Because now that Cowher's coaches and players are gone, Haley is gone,Munchak is gone, LeBeau is gone...............what is Tomlin winning??. No playoffs last year, no playoffs this year.

Because Fitchner is a cornball, Butler is a cornball, and our O-line coach (whoever he is) is a failure. When these positions had comprable people in them, we thrived and posters gave the credit to Tomlin.

And.....Tomlin doesn't have the power to hire or fire his own assistants. He's not a real coach. He's a figure head who's been getting the credit when management has assembled a good team of assistants under him. He's just a manager of those assistants but puts in no crediable input to those assistants jobs because he has none.

Real coaches such as Bellichek, Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh fired and hired their own assistant coaches. Tomlin is a figure head with no real input.

He does nothing well. Grade "C" coach.

[Oh wow]

It’s been 1.5 games since we lost Ben.

Geek down dude. You act like the been 2 or 3 losing seasons.

Any winning wasn’t him it was everyone else... but all the losing is solely on him?

Did we not just watch conner fumble in our territory with the lead?

The same Conner you guys have been bragging about and constantly bringing up to Ruthless?

If Conner ripped off an 80 yard TD to seal that win you would’ve been in here screaming on Ruthless and me about how Conner won the game.

He fumbled and all the coaches are idiots.

While the fun to debate its damn near like politics. No one is going to admit being wrong or give credit..

just spin and more spin to fit your Tomlin bashing narrative.

[Oviedo]

Win games.
Of current coaches with 100 or more games he is second only to BB in not just wins but winning percentage.

Nowhere near Noll and his NINE hofers in the pre cap era in postseason successs, but he have the best overall win percentage in Steeler history.

I know you guys will feel compelled to parse that up to fit a narrative, his recent failures open up the discussion for change but it is EASY to see why the Rooneys are FAR LESS quick to panic than many fans are.

On the mark. The Rooney's won't panic

[Eich]

This site doesn't rank Tomlin very high. For last week, anyway...

https://www.headcoachranking.com/hcr/total-rank/

[Oh wow]

This site doesn't rank Tomlin very high. For last week, anyway...
https://www.headcoachranking.com/hcr/total-rank/

Lmao..well that settles it.