Fire Mike Tomlin

[Oh wow]

The thing is that only one side of this debate does research (the side arguing for the status quo). And that work has generally shown that the Steelers have met or exceeded reasonable expectations under Tomlin, even over his worst span of time (conviently used by those who don't like him).

I think in successful organizations, the side of an argument that wants a dramatic change should be the one that has to demonstrate that the change is better than the status quo. And given the Steelers success under Tomlin, I think it's unlikely that you'd be able to make the that case outside of hiring BB (which I would obviously do in a second).

They do this all the time. Say things that sound extremely damaging and then when asked to show their work they balk.

Besides Denver I can’t think of any other teams that have a lot of wins with different coaches.

[whatever]

Hmm.. seems like you could easily list off a few for us.

I’m not that invested in the answer but thanks for not backing up your words.

Probably because you can't handle the truth.
Not sure why you think you have to pull the tough guy 'backing up your words' thing , but I will take note of that with you from now on.


Seahwaks 1
49ers 5
Pats !
Ravens 1
Colts 2
Broncos 4
Eagles 4
Giants 4
Sainhts 1
Falcons 2
Packers 2

You're welcome

[Oh wow]

Probably because you can't handle the truth.
Not sure why you think you have to pull the tough guy 'backing up your words' thing , but I will take note of that with you from now on.


Seahwaks 1
49ers 5
Pats !
Ravens 1
Colts 2
Broncos 4
Eagles 4
Giants 4
Sainhts 1
Falcons 2
Packers 2

You're welcome

Thanks.

You said many have won more than us with different coaches.

I don’t see many with different coaches on that list who actually won playoffs games.

GB just fired their coach.
SF hadn’t won since Harbaugh left
Giants haven’t won anything since Coughlin left.


why am I a tough guy for asking for evidence for a claim YOU made?

IMO this list shows changing coaches doesn’t actually bring more success... it brings less.

Denver, Philly and maybe ATL are probably the only teams with multiple coaches with playoff wins.

[whatever]

Thanks.

You said many have won more than us with different coaches.

I don’t see many with different coaches on that list who actually won playoffs games.

GB just fired their coach.
SF hadn’t won since Harbaugh left
Giants haven’t won anything since Coughlin left.


why am I a tough guy for asking for evidence for a claim YOU made?

IMO this list shows changing coaches doesn’t actually bring more success... it brings less.

Denver, Philly and maybe ATL are probably the only teams with multiple coaches with playoff wins.

I stated that numerous teams have had as many or more playoff wins as Tomlin has the past 8 years and most of those teams have had more than 1 coach also.
I never said all those different coaches have had playoff wins. I am just proving that staying with a HC is not the only proven way to go when it comes to playoff wins.,
It actually shows 10 teams are better than Tomlin and 1 is the same the last 8 years.
When you use his 'second best regular season HC record' during that time and compare it to his post season record, you can easily see just how much he has failed in the post season.
After seeing the facts, you now just move the goal posts because it doesn't fit your agenda .

[Oh wow]

I stated that numerous teams have had as many or more playoff wins as Tomlin has the past 8 years and most of those teams have had more than 1 coach also.
I never said all those different coaches have had playoff wins. I am just proving that staying with a HC is not the only proven way to go when it comes to playoff wins.,
It actually shows 10 teams are better than Tomlin and 1 is the same the last 8 years.
When you use his 'second best regular season HC record' during that time and compare it to his post season record, you can easily see just how much he has failed in the post season.
After seeing the facts, you now just move the goal posts because it doesn't fit your agenda .

I don’t have an agenda. Tomlin is the coach until he isn’t.

The way you typed it, it read like many teams with numerous coaches ha w more playoff wins than Tomlin these last 8 years.

I asked for proof and you got in your feelings instead of just providing it to back up your post.

I know what Tomlin has done in the post season and I also know why the list for 8 years instead of 10 years.

But again, thank you for actually providing the list. Most people say these things but never show the stats.

[Northern_Blitz]

I stated that numerous teams have had as many or more playoff wins as Tomlin has the past 8 years and most of those teams have had more than 1 coach also.
I never said all those different coaches have had playoff wins. I am just proving that staying with a HC is not the only proven way to go when it comes to playoff wins.,
It actually shows 10 teams are better than Tomlin and 1 is the same the last 8 years.
When you use his 'second best regular season HC record' during that time and compare it to his post season record, you can easily see just how much he has failed in the post season.
After seeing the facts, you now just move the goal posts because it doesn't fit your agenda .

So, I guess the question is something like: In how many of these cases, did firing the coach make the team better (especially without the addition of a good rookie QB)?

At least some of your data shows that getting rid of coaches with good historical records (Harbaugh, Coughlin, we'll see with GB) meant that the team got worse (or at least didn't get better).

If the argument is "Replacing Tomlin will make the team better", it would be nice to see some data that doing that works.

If you're arguing for firing him now, there's also the added difficulty of replacing a coach in season.

Even for someone who wants him replaced, I don't see how advocating for a mid season coaching change makes sense.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

the larger point is that some of you people act like tomlin is the only person who can do this job

you have at least one person here who has stated numerous times that tomlin should be able to coach the steelers until he doesn't want to anymore. it's absolutely absurd

the guy is completely average at most facets of his job. without a franchise QB he wouldnt win squat

[NorthCoast]

the larger point is that some of you people act like tomlin is the only person who can do this job

you have at least one person here who has stated numerous times that tomlin should be able to coach the steelers until he doesn't want to anymore. it's absolutely absurd

the guy is completely average at most facets of his job. without a franchise QB he wouldnt win squat

and some people claim it's easy to find someone who will do a better job.......

[whatever]

So, I guess the question is something like: In how many of these cases, did firing the coach make the team better (especially without the addition of a good rookie QB)?

At least some of your data shows that getting rid of coaches with good historical records (Harbaugh, Coughlin, we'll see with GB) meant that the team got worse (or at least didn't get better).

If the argument is "Replacing Tomlin will make the team better", it would be nice to see some data that doing that works.

If you're arguing for firing him now, there's also the added difficulty of replacing a coach in season.

Even for someone who wants him replaced, I don't see how advocating for a mid season coaching change makes sense.

I think a new coach right now or next year would have the same result as when Tomlin was brought in. A new voice, schtick, hunger attitude would breathe fresh air into this very talented roster.
Tomlin 's playoff success came in his first 4 years(5 playoff wins). This occurred with Cowher's players and Cowher's coaches. Tomlin had no say into any hirings. He privided a fresh voice. It is obvious that the longer Tomlin has been here and the more he is involved in decision making, the playoff success has faultered (3 wind in 8 years).

Obviously nobody knows if a new coach will be better but what could we be missing out on? 3 wins in 8 years? I'm not scared. I'll take my chances.

But to answer your question: Most of them

49ers hire Harbaugh and he went on a real nice 4-5 years run
Colts hired Reich and had a great first year
Colts hired Pagano had a had a great first 3-4 years
O'briens first 3 years with the Texans was a big turned around.
Fox and Kubiak both had instant success with the Broncos.
Mcado's first year with the Giants was a huge turn around.
Coughlin had a nice run there starting his second year with the giants.
Quinn turned the Falcons around instantly.
Mcarthy did the same with the Packers.


To me it sorta looks like those 10 coaches came in and instantly brought something to their new teams. I say its attitude.
Of course lots of those guys fizzled out and left/got fired because of their regular season records, which were worse than Tomlins. The fact remains that they were more successful early than late. Just like Tomlin.
As far as finding someone now, no big deal. Make someone interim. Everything is in place for the year, all you need now is new rah rah stuff and game management(which even the biggest Tomlin lovers admit he is lacking in)

[fordfixer]

and some people claim it's easy to find someone who will do a better job.......

It would appear that a good portion of the posters on here believe they could do it better, if you don’t believe me just ask them?

[whatever]

and some people claim it's easy to find someone who will do a better job.......

Are you really worried that this organization couldn't hire a coach capable of winning 3 playoffs games in 8 years with a loaded roster?
One could almost make a claim that people that have this view of Tomlin 'can't be replaced with someone better' don't think much of the organization's ability to function without him.

[NorthCoast]

I think a new coach right now or next year would have the same result as when Tomlin was brought in. A new voice, schtick, hunger attitude would breathe fresh air into this very talented roster.
Tomlin 's playoff success came in his first 4 years(5 playoff wins). This occurred with Cowher's players and Cowher's coaches. Tomlin had no say into any hirings. He privided a fresh voice. It is obvious that the longer Tomlin has been here and the more he is involved in decision making, the playoff success has faultered (3 wind in 8 years).

Obviously nobody knows if a new coach will be better but what could we be missing out on? 3 wins in 8 years? I'm not scared. I'll take my chances.

But to answer your question: Most of them

49ers hire Harbaugh and he went on a real nice 4-5 years run
Colts hired Reich and had a great first year
Colts hired Pagano had a had a great first 3-4 years
O'briens first 3 years with the Texans was a big turned around.
Fox and Kubiak both had instant success with the Broncos.
Mcado's first year with the Giants was a huge turn around.
Coughlin had a nice run there starting his second year with the giants.
Quinn turned the Falcons around instantly.
Mcarthy did the same with the Packers.


To me it sorta looks like those 10 coaches came in and instantly brought something to their new teams. I say its attitude.
Of course lots of those guys fizzled out and left/got fired because of their regular season records, which were worse than Tomlins. The fact remains that they were more successful early than late. Just like Tomlin.
As far as finding someone now, no big deal. Make someone interim. Everything is in place for the year, all you need now is new rah rah stuff and game management(which even the biggest Tomlin lovers admit he is lacking in)

I disagree. You have a very veteran Offense so at this point they are what they are. Defense might be coached up.

A good test of your theory is Green Bay. Let's see how they do with their new HC and AR.

[Oh wow]

It would appear that a good portion of the posters on here believe they could do it better, if you don’t believe me just ask them?

Listing off a bunch of teams and half of them haven’t been to a SB let alone won one.

If you think another HC is going to motivate Ben to be more than he is right now I have a bridge to sell you.

We go as Ben goes.. that’s it.

[Oh wow]

I disagree. You have a very veteran Offense so at this point they are what they are. Defense might be coached up.

A good test of your theory is Green Bay. Let's see how they do with their new HC and AR.

Veteran offense? We have Ben, Pouncey, DD and a bunch of kids... and good grief as our #2 WR.

[Oh wow]

Are you really worried that this organization couldn't hire a coach capable of winning 3 playoffs games in 8 years with a loaded roster?
One could almost make a claim that people that have this view of Tomlin 'can't be replaced with someone better' don't think much of the organization's ability to function without him.

3 wins in 8 years, 3 wins in 8 years...

I’m starting to see a pattern here.

I think someone is trying to pull a Kevin Durant.