Just got back from Heinz part deux......

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  • Starlifter
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 5078

    Just got back from Heinz part deux......

    well, I DID stop to consume large quantities of alcohol first - but now I'm home and it's time to share my thoughts. A couple of disclaimers first, no emotion hopefully - just some sober analysis. Also, while I'm not a shameless Tomlin cheerleader (he does fine by himself...) I believe he is a very good coach.

    But after a loss like this, it's time to really look at what we squandered this year.

    I know many will point to 42 points against the #2 defense in the NFL and say this loss is on the defense. While of course this loss is on the defense, the 42 points does not give the offense a free pass. Here's why.

    Did we score those 42 points because of scheme? because of play calling? because of a clever innovative design that left our WR's open in space? nope. We scored those points because Ben chucked it down field and our guys made plays. We scored because Ben scrambled and was able to throw a lateral while in street ball mode. We scored when Haley's plays broke down and our guys had to rely on their talent to make it happen. Can you imagine what this offense might do with some young innovative guru?

    Bottom line, you have a top tier O-Line, the best RB in the league (who is also a bruiser when needed) a 250 lb QB and you don't trust them to get a few inches on 4th down. That alone says everything you need to know about Haley.

    Haley should NOT be renewed.

    As for the Defense. It's convenient to point to the loss of Shazier. We were certainly a shell without him. No speed in the middle, no depth at inner LB. But like Haley, Butler HAS playmakers. We let the jags push us around. we either blew assignments or the jags had an offense to free up people in space. We fell for screen passes again - even though every team runs them on us constantly, especially teams with bad QB's like Jacksonville. I realize there's only so much money to go around - but we have a LOT of #1 picks on the defensive side. We upgraded our secondary with Haden. How have the Jags been able to turn their defense around in such a short time while we are in what seems to be the 5th year of our 'rebuilding' process. How have the Eagles been able to go from worst to first in defense?

    I think Butler has shown just how far he can take this group. And it's not far enough.

    I know it seems terribly reactionary to be calling for both coordinators to be replaced after a playoff loss - but this loss was not an aberration. While the steelers finished 13-3 and that's a terrific record, they were clawing and scratching for wins most of the year. 4 last second FG's to win. Allowing career games against journeymen QB's and backups. Unless you want to offer the theory that we have put 22 men on the field who simply aren't good enough - then you have to consider the possibility that it's coaching, schemes and outside factors that are hurting this group.


    Which brings me to Tomlin.

    The Rooney's will never fire Mike Tomlin. Not after 13-3 and another playoff run. But I must confess, while I think he's a good coach. I am really starting to think he's about one game better than Andy Reid. In other words, he makes the playoffs and can get one win - but can't push it over the goal line. I don't detract from his SB victory because it was largely Cowher players - but as we move further and further from that group, he has to be held accountable.

    There are many ways to run a team and how to coach. NE certainly is the gold standard. I'm not suggesting we adopt the 'patriot way' - but it's hard not to look at the difference between the two organizations and think that a little 'patriot' discipline would be a good thing in Pittsburgh.

    Let me put it this way. Would the patriots ever talk about anything other than the next game? Do patriots players use social media to criticize their teammates or look past opponents? Does anyone know who the patriots 'end zone celebration' coordinator is? do they even have one or organize celebrations at all? I know many are saying the jags will present a problem for brady. Perhaps. But the steelers let tebow beat them only to watch him get squashed by the pats. If they do the same thing to the jags - can we not start to say the Tomlin way will win you lots of games. The Tomlin way is great for sound bites. The Tomlin way is exciting, full of drama and full of energy. But the Tomlin way doesn't win superbowls?


    As I said, the Rooney's will never fire Tomlin. BUT - Dan is no longer with us. Art II is on his own. Is it possible Art II looks at this team and thinks - we have the horses. We have players on both sides. I can't blow up the 53 - so how do I get this team over the hump? Is it just a matter of replacing coordinators? How does that fix the problem of a Coach who has a reputation for playing down to the lesser teams in the league? And if you're looking for the simplest method to make a drastic change with the team without blowing up your roster - doesn't if have to start with the HC?

    It's been interesting the last week or so listening to the pundits talk about the HC openings and the best jobs out there. Imagine this.

    The Steelers remove Tomlin and the staff on Tuesday. At that moment the Steelers become the #1 prize HC position in the league. They can have whomever they want. They have a HOF QB, Brown, Bell, Bryant. JuJu. They DO have solid players on defense. This is a team that someone can come in to and have immediate success.

    I can't believe I'm actually advocating for a total overhaul. That seems to reactionary and too quick after an emotional loss. But i believe we have great players. So if the players aren't the issue, then it has to start at the top. Replacing the OC and DC but keeping the HC is nothing but window dressing.

    People talk about Matt Patrician going to Detroit.

    With what he's done with the NE defense this year, with what he's learned from BB. I think if the Steelers called him on Tuesday, we'd be able to announce him Tuesday afternoon. I also think highly of Josh McDaniels. I know it's easy to paint him as a guru with Brady as his QB - but his offense is well designed, innovative and is always attacking. McDaniels would have called a QB sneak on 4th and inches.

    But my opinion doesn't mean squat and the Steelers aren't going to change their stripes. Tomlin will be back. Ben will be back. We'll probably have a new OC. There will be lots of wins next year. There will be drama and excitement. There will likely be another playoff run.

    But I don't think there will be a Lombardi. I'd love to be proven wrong of course - but this season, this loss - has now put me in the camp of doubters. It's not just a one game tough loss. It's a body of work that demonstrates success, but not dominance. We have the talent to be a dominant team. But I think we're going to be stuck with just being a good team and if the dominoes fall our way - maybe we get #7. But that Lombardi will have to fall to us. I no longer think Tomlin is the HC who can reach out and TAKE it.

    The Steelers were on the edge all year. Some great moments for sure - but this season really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I think the Steelers squandered a great team and a great opportunity.

    Oh well.......
    Last edited by Starlifter; 01-14-2018, 10:39 PM.
    2014 MNF EXEC CHAMPION!!!
  • pittpete
    Legend
    • Aug 2008
    • 6825

    #2
    That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out post......Cousin Vinny comes to mind but i'm not going to over rule you.
    Love the post
    sigpic

    Comment

    • Eich
      Legend
      • Jul 2010
      • 7044

      #3
      Nicely written for someone who had to sit in the cold and watch that humiliating performance. Kudos. I can’t think clearly enough right now to respond much other than to say that I agree Tomlin will be back.

      Comment

      • Terrapin
        Pro Bowler
        • Sep 2017
        • 2081

        #4
        Wow, really well stated.

        Comment

        • pittpete
          Legend
          • Aug 2008
          • 6825

          #5
          The Tomlin way is exciting, full of drama and full of energy. But the Tomlin way doesn't win superbowls?
          Some people are satisfied with just that. I want us to win Super Bowls while we have our franchise QB still walking.
          I still want Tomlin to coach our team but this "Andy Reidish" act is getting a little long in the tooth.
          sigpic

          Comment

          • SteelBucks
            Legend
            • Aug 2008
            • 8075

            #6
            You’ve pretty much summarized the mood of the message board in a single post. Nice analysis. Game plan was awful on both sides of the ball.

            Comment

            • papillon
              Legend
              • Mar 2008
              • 11340

              #7
              I don't understand why everyone thinks that Ben was lucky today, his throws to Brown, Bryant and Bell were incredible, Browns catch was excellent, the other two have to be made, period. Ben was not the problem today, struggled early but he got it together and was stellar the rest of the way. The lateral to Bell is just a heads up football play, the same with the fake lateral that allowed him to get a first down running the ball, which isn't his forte.

              Pappy
              sigpic

              The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

              1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
              3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
              3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
              4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
              5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
              7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

              "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

              Comment

              • Slapstick
                Rookie
                • May 2008
                • 0

                #8
                I agree. Some of that post was emotional and reactionary. But, not 100% wrong...
                Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                Comment

                • Ernie
                  Legend
                  • Aug 2013
                  • 8470

                  #9
                  Pretty well hit the nail on the head. Excellent post Starlifter.

                  Comment

                  • Starlifter
                    Legend
                    • May 2008
                    • 5078

                    #10
                    Originally posted by papillon
                    I don't understand why everyone thinks that Ben was lucky today, his throws to Brown, Bryant and Bell were incredible, Browns catch was excellent, the other two have to be made, period. Ben was not the problem today, struggled early but he got it together and was stellar the rest of the way. The lateral to Bell is just a heads up football play, the same with the fake lateral that allowed him to get a first down running the ball, which isn't his forte.

                    Pappy
                    Pappy, if the inference is that I'm saying Ben was lucky - that's 100% not my goal. Ben was amazing today. the fumble and interception were bad of course, but those throws were off the chart amazing. That was the point I was trying to make. We scored TD's - not because of Haley's brilliance, innovation and play calling - but because Ben is a stud QB, AB is a stud WR and they made highlight reel plays throughout the game. I want to watch the replay so I can see those throws and catches in High-def. But I can never watch this game again.

                    No sir, we had incredible players making incredible plays.

                    all the more sickening considering the final score.....
                    2014 MNF EXEC CHAMPION!!!

                    Comment

                    • Slapstick
                      Rookie
                      • May 2008
                      • 0

                      #11
                      Yeah, it was not brilliant play design...
                      Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                      Comment

                      • Terrapin
                        Pro Bowler
                        • Sep 2017
                        • 2081

                        #12
                        Originally posted by papillon
                        I don't understand why everyone thinks that Ben was lucky today, his throws to Brown, Bryant and Bell were incredible, Browns catch was excellent, the other two have to be made, period. Ben was not the problem today, struggled early but he got it together and was stellar the rest of the way. The lateral to Bell is just a heads up football play, the same with the fake lateral that allowed him to get a first down running the ball, which isn't his forte.

                        Pappy
                        I wouldn't say they were lucky, but they were pretty low percentage plays. ABs one handed catch, Bell's catch. As great as they are, they still only make those plays what, 30% of the time? I mean, how often is anyone going to make a one handed catch with a DB draped all over him?

                        Comment

                        • papillon
                          Legend
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 11340

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Terrapin
                          I wouldn't say they were lucky, but they were pretty low percentage plays. ABs one handed catch, Bell's catch. As great as they are, they still only make those plays what, 30% of the time? I mean, how often is anyone going to make a one handed catch with a DB draped all over him?
                          Bell's catch was against a LB (I think) who he had beat and a perfectly thrown ball, Bryant's a thing of beauty, not sure how much higher percentage it gets, the Brown catch is simply a QB having faith in the best receiver in football and thrown where only his guy is making the play. Each one was a perfect throw and in Brown's case the perfect throw and a great play on the ball. I'm fine with those throws all day.

                          Pappy
                          sigpic

                          The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

                          1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
                          3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
                          3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
                          4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
                          5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
                          7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

                          "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

                          Comment

                          • pittpete
                            Legend
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 6825

                            #14
                            Only one that was a chuck was the one to AB.
                            He was being held and Bell was interfered with.
                            Im not complaining because the refs actually let them play today which made me happy
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • papillon
                              Legend
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 11340

                              #15
                              Originally posted by pittpete
                              Only one that was a chuck was the one to AB.
                              He was being held and Bell was interfered with.
                              Im not complaining because the refs actually let them play today which made me happy
                              That was one helluva a chuck, it couldn't have been thrown any better, that's all I have to say.

                              Pappy
                              sigpic

                              The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

                              1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
                              3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
                              3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
                              4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
                              5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
                              7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

                              "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

                              Comment

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