OT: Browns fire GM Sashi Brown but announce Hue Jackson will return as coach in 2018

[fordfixer]

Soooooo glad this chump is no longer a minority shareholder in the Steelers. He obviously learned literally nothing from the Rooneys.

We have a saying in my line of work that applies here and in a lot of other places, it goes like this “You can’t fix stupid “ feel free to use it for your self’s

[feltdizz]

The Browns have a ton of picks next year.

and instead of using them to get the franchise QB watch them screw it up again.

[tiproast]

Trading down can be a good idea if you don't need a quarterback because to be competitive for playoffs and super bowls you have to have a franchise quarterback. I know dilfer won one and some guy named Johnson at Tampa, but by and large if you don't have a Roethlisberger, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning(s), etc at quarterback you aren't competing. The best way to get quarterback is in the top 5 of the draft. Picking up more picks by trading down can be benficial for all other positions unless, of course, that once in a lifetime player is there for the taking. But, quarterback isn't something to trade down and pick up the 3rd or 4th best rated QB in the draft if you can grab the highest rated QB. It doesn't always work out but you have a better chance of getting Ben at #11 than you do Brady at #180 or whatever it was.

Pappy

I think that perhaps the Browns, in the last few drafts, were looking at both the draft positions of some of the all-time greats (Favre & Brees were second round picks, Montana was a 3rd round, Brady 6th round) as well as a more recent example (Russell Wilson was 3rd round), and thinking that they didn't need to spend their top of the draft pick on a QB.

But I agree with you - the odds are in your favor if you use a high pick on a Manning, a Roethlisberger, or a Matt Ryan and then try to surround them with a good o-line and some decent skill position players. As long as you can stay away from the Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell level of mistake, you won't go far wrong. With the #1 overall pick, average QB talent evaluation, and a decent draft class, a team should do no worse than the Matthew Stafford level of accomplishment. Which isn't all that great, but it's several levels above where the Browns are now.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Browns hire John Dorsey as General Manager

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 7, 2017, 9:19 PM EST

Hours after firing Sashi Brown, the Cleveland Browns have hired his replacement.

John Dorsey, who was fired as General Manager of the Chiefs this year, has been hired for the G.M. job in Cleveland.

The hiring will raise immediate questions about whether the Browns complied with the Rooney Rule, which requires NFL teams to interview at least one minority candidate for all head-coaching and G.M. jobs. The Browns had clearly decided on Dorsey, who is white, before they even fired Brown.

“We are thrilled to have John Dorsey lead our football operations,” said Dee and Jimmy Haslam in a statement. “John has been immersed in the NFL for 26 years, won two Super Bowls, built sustainable winning football teams and is highly respected for his football acumen. We know we have a critical and very positive opportunity ahead of us to profoundly impact the foundation of this football team. Bringing in someone of John Dorsey’s caliber, his track record of success and his experience, significantly strengthens our opportunities to build a winning football team and that has been, and continues to be, what we want for our fans.”

Dorsey will have a wealth of draft picks and cap space to work with as he attempts to dig the Browns out of the deep hole the franchise is in.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/07/browns-hire-john-dorsey-as-general-manager/

[RuthlessBurgher]

It's kinda funny that one of the final moves for new Browns GM John Dorsey in Kansas City was to trade up ahead of Cleveland into the top 10 to take QB Pat Mahomes for the Chiefs.

[Slapstick]

I think that perhaps the Browns, in the last few drafts, were looking at both the draft positions of some of the all-time greats (Favre & Brees were second round picks, Montana was a 3rd round, Brady 6th round) as well as a more recent example (Russell Wilson was 3rd round), and thinking that they didn't need to spend their top of the draft pick on a QB.

But I agree with you - the odds are in your favor if you use a high pick on a Manning, a Roethlisberger, or a Matt Ryan and then try to surround them with a good o-line and some decent skill position players. As long as you can stay away from the Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell level of mistake, you won't go far wrong. With the #1 overall pick, average QB talent evaluation, and a decent draft class, a team should do no worse than the Matthew Stafford level of accomplishment. Which isn't all that great, but it's several levels above where the Browns are now.

The Browns can’t afford to allow perfect to be the enemy of good...

[WB Tarleton]

Trading down can be a good idea if you don't need a quarterback because to be competitive for playoffs and super bowls you have to have a franchise quarterback. I know dilfer won one and some guy named Johnson at Tampa, but by and large if you don't have a Roethlisberger, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning(s), etc at quarterback you aren't competing. The best way to get quarterback is in the top 5 of the draft. Picking up more picks by trading down can be benficial for all other positions unless, of course, that once in a lifetime player is there for the taking. But, quarterback isn't something to trade down and pick up the 3rd or 4th best rated QB in the draft if you can grab the highest rated QB. It doesn't always work out but you have a better chance of getting Ben at #11 than you do Brady at #180 or whatever it was.

Pappy

That's exactly right.

Top 10-15 is it and then there is generally a HUGE drop off in success of QBs taken in the first round. In fact, I would almost say those drafted in the second round and later have had more success becoming elite or near elite QBs than mid to late first rounders.

I didn't include 2017 (too early) but here is the history of QB drafting by draft location since 2004:

Top 15: Goff, Wentz, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Luck, Griffin, Tannehill, Cam, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Ryan, Russell, Young, Leinart, Cutler, Smith, Eli, Rivers, Ben

16-32: Lynch, Manziel, Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Weeden, Tebow, Freeman, Flacco, Quinn, Rodgers, Campbell, JP Losman

2nd round or later (just including people who had anything that could be called a career): Hackenberg, Brissett, Kessler, Dak, Bryce Petty, Brett Hundley, Trevor Siemien, Carr, Garoppolo, Savage, McCarron, Geno Smith, Glennon, Laundry Jones, Osweiler, Russell Wilson, Foles, Cousins, Dalton, Kaepernick, Mallett, TJ Yates, Tyrod Taylor, Colt McCoy, Henne, Kevin Kolb, Trent Edwards, Orton, Cassell, Anderson, Fitzpatrick, Scahub, McCown

I would rather pick from the second round and later list than the late first round list. A better chance to get a serviceable QB. It's true that there are also a ton more misses in rounds 2-7 that I am not adding, but there is a lot less risk on a 2-3 rounder than missing on a first round guy. In the end, the list just tells me how hard it is to get a top QB ANYWHERE, even at the top of the draft.

Either go high and get the top guy or two or get some guy in a later round who may be missing some measurables but seems to produce, has good intelligence, or something that indicates a high upside.

[Steel Maniac]

I was hoping the Browns would give Drew Carey a shot at being GM.