Steelers DBs - Are They Good Enough?

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  • flippy
    Legend
    • Dec 2008
    • 17088

    Steelers DBs - Are They Good Enough?

    Everyone wanted to upgrade the DBs in the draft. And for good reason, we can always upgrade the talent. But at the end of the day, are the DBs the reason we couldn't beat NE?

    I'd say the guys we have are good enough if they get some time to play together. Burns and Davis are legit starters with their game improving as the season wore on. Mitchell is pretty underrated in Pittsburgh and has improved since he joined the team and got comfortable in our system. There's been a lot of moving parts around him and as the young guys continue to develop, I see the continuity helping Mitchell's play.

    Cockrell is a mixed bag. Sometimes he does some good things, but other times he's mediocre. The team using the lowest tender on him tells you what they think of him. But he's a smart kid and no reason he can't be a solid contributor. No one thought very highly of Deshea or Willie Gay in their early days, but both worked their way into solid contributors and I think we'll live with Cockrell on the outside and fans will start to like him more and more as he makes positive contributions and doesn't show himself to be a liability.

    Probably the biggest short term concern is Willie Gay getting long in the tooth, but with Sutton and Golson, I think we have some options. Who knows with either, but both guys probably have more upside than Gay ever did.

    Beyond the starters, we'll likely see some tough competition for the backup spots. I like the flyer we took on Allen. Couple of the other young guys are still unknowns. Not sure we have much depth at S that makes me comfortable at this point, but we have some young guys throughout our DBs and continuity is probably the most important part of this unit's performance.

    Continuity and communication on the backend contributed to the big plays. It's not like we're getting over matched by NE's WRs. We just chose not to cover guys. I think we have more concern covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield. And that's not on the DBs. Some of that is on the LBs.

    But most of all, the biggest gap in our Defense is getting pressure on the QB. If we can somehow figure out a way to get pressure with 3-4 guys, all of our concerns about our DBs will magically disappear.

    No matter how you slice it, the teams that cause problems for Brady are the teams that can get to Brady with their D front. That's where we need to invest. That's why the Broncos or the Giants in recent years have been able to give NE problems.

    So the bigger question I have walking away from the draft is, did we get better at generating pressure with 3-4? I don't know that we did. And if we can't generate pressure without blitzing, you can have Woodsen, Blount, Troy, Shell, Carnell, whomever playing DB and they are going to look mediocre against Tom Brady if he has all the time in the world to make plays.

    If we're going to beat NE, it's more about how much Hargrave and Tuitt can improve in the short term. Draft picks aren't going to really help us during Ben's tenure most likely. At this point, we've got to develop who we have on D over time. But our future D is a post Ben era D that we're building. If we want to win now, I think a backup RB and #3 WR and a dynamic TE could be the biggest components to help us over the hump. To have a short term chance vs NE, you have to go all in on trying to get to 40 points/game. As many weapons as we have, Ben seemed to be playing alone in that last game against NE.

    I'm just not sure our secondary is the fix. We need a pass rush. We need to cover RBs and TEs better. We need young guys to gain experience playing together so we don't make mental lapses. And we need to be able to put up points and clearly we were missing depth at the skill position on O.
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  • feltdizz
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 27508

    #2
    Are the DB's good enough? Well that depends on the pressure we generate up front. Giants showed everyone how to beat the Pats. Atlanta also showed us the formula they just didn't finish the job.

    Press coverage while getting pressure on the QB and knocking him down.

    Hopefully Watt helps us turn the corner. Dude looks like a pesky type of LB.
    Steelers 27
    Rats 16

    Comment

    • Slapstick
      Rookie
      • May 2008
      • 0

      #3
      I think Watt will see significant snaps this season and will help ramp up the pressure...if Dupree remains healthy, those two will do great things along with Harrison...

      The other guy who is overlooked is Coty Sensabaugh...in a Dick LeBeau/Ray Horton coordinated D, he had 8 PDs and 2 INTs, which is pretty good for a slot CB...during the same season, William Gay had 7 PDs and 2 INTs...

      I think he will provide stability and a veteran presence in the defensive backfield while Burns and Davis continue to develop and the younger CBs (Sutton, Allen, and hopefully Golson) come along...

      While some think that William Gay might be cut, I think that allowing Shamarko Thomas to go opened up a space for William Gay in a safety role...he's probably the best defensive mind that the Steelers have in the secondary, and he's played a safety-type role on a limited basis in the past...
      Last edited by Slapstick; 05-02-2017, 08:49 AM.
      Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

      Comment

      • SidSmythe
        Hall of Famer
        • Sep 2008
        • 4708

        #4
        We're forgetting the leaps and bounds DAVIS and BURNS will make.
        Having a healthy rotation on the DL and adding a legitimate threat like WATT can help down the stretch.
        Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...
        Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...
        Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...!!!

        Comment

        • RuthlessBurgher
          Legend
          • May 2008
          • 33208

          #5
          Originally posted by flippy
          So the bigger question I have walking away from the draft is, did we get better at generating pressure with 3-4? I don't know that we did.
          .
          We get back Heyward from injury.

          Hargrave and Tuitt are ascending players who should improve.

          Bud Dupree should be much more effective if he can play the entire season rather than spending most of the year on the shelf rehabbing, then getting thrown into the fire.

          The guy who will be rotating in at OLB to keep Harrison fresh is T.J. Watt rather than Jarvis Jones.

          All of that points to an improved pass rush overall. Deebo being another year older is the only regression amongst our primary pass rushers...everyone else should be an upgrade over where they finished last season.
          Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

          Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

          We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

          We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

          Comment

          • Real Deal Steel
            Banned
            • Jan 2017
            • 1229

            #6
            Originally posted by feltdizz
            Are the DB's good enough? Well that depends on the pressure we generate up front. Giants showed everyone how to beat the Pats. Atlanta also showed us the formula they just didn't finish the job.

            Press coverage while getting pressure on the QB and knocking him down.

            Hopefully Watt helps us turn the corner. Dude looks like a pesky type of LB.
            Felt, I agree with you! And to further extrapolate, if pressure is the name of the game, are we going to add another veteran d-line guy or linebacker because our rotation is still thin at both positions. Are Travis Feeney and Matakevich ready to make big time contributions? Because the way that Colbert acted in the draft, they acted like Watt was enough.

            Comment

            • Real Deal Steel
              Banned
              • Jan 2017
              • 1229

              #7
              Originally posted by SidSmythe
              We're forgetting the leaps and bounds DAVIS and BURNS will make.
              Having a healthy rotation on the DL and adding a legitimate threat like WATT can help down the stretch.
              I"m counting on Davis and Burns getting better and being comfortable in the system now. But again, unless Feeney and Matakevich are ready to contribute big time, we are still thin on the D-line and linebacker corps.

              Last year's draft grade was an "A".

              Comment

              • Oviedo
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 23823

                #8
                It's about pressure on the QB. Look at who has given the Pats the most trouble and they can all get to the QB.

                Selling out on drafting DBs won't do anything if you can't get to the QB frequently. BTW, in case the hysterical posters didn't notice we did draft 2 DBs. One who contribute near term and one who has a lot of possible upside for the future. Sounds like there was a plan to me.

                I find it laughable that some still believe you just draft rookies and everything gets better. It took Burns and Davis most of their first season to get competent and they still have a ways to go.
                "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

                Comment

                • RuthlessBurgher
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 33208

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Real Deal Steel
                  I"m counting on Davis and Burns getting better and being comfortable in the system now. But again, unless Feeney and Matakevich are ready to contribute big time, we are still thin on the D-line and linebacker corps.
                  Travis Feeney is on the New Orleans Saints.

                  Behind Cam Heyward and Stephon Tuitt, we have Tyson Alualu, L.T. Walton, and Johnny Maxey.
                  Behind Javon Hargrave, we have Daniel McCullers.
                  Behind Bud Dupree and James Harrison, we have T.J. Watt, Arthur Moats, and Anthony Chickillo.
                  Behind Ryan Shazier and Vince Williams, we have Tyler Matakevich, L.J. Fort, and Steven Johnson.
                  Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                  Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                  We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                  We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                  Comment

                  • Real Deal Steel
                    Banned
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 1229

                    #10
                    Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher

                    Behind Cam Heyward and Stephon Tuitt, we have Tyson Alualu, L.T. Walton, and Johnny Maxey.
                    Behind Javon Hargrave, we have Daniel McCullers.
                    Behind Bud Dupree and James Harrison, we have T.J. Watt, Arthur Moats, and Anthony Chickillo.
                    Behind Ryan Shazier and Vince Williams, we have Tyler Matakevich, L.J. Fort, and Steven Johnson.
                    Ruth,

                    Vince Williams is limited; and I'm being kind. Moats is limited. We are still waiting on McCullers and Chickillo is "okay" at best. Come on. Like I said, we are thin at linebacker. I could go on with a couple of other guys but I think I've made the point I was trying to make. Not to mention if an injuries hit. I'm not saying I don't like or understand the Ju Ju selections, but if we would have then taken Jordan Willis behind Watt (for example), I think we would have had something fierce as far as getting after the opposing QB.
                    Last edited by Real Deal Steel; 05-02-2017, 11:15 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Real Deal Steel
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2017
                      • 1229

                      #11
                      If we were not going to seriously address the other two spots in the secondary in the draft, I'd have like to have gotten an insane pass rush out of the draft with another top linebacker.Heaven forbid if Watt, Dupree or Harrison got hurt, then we are right back to where we were last year. Decent depth is what I was looking for/hoping for.

                      Comment

                      • SteelerOfDeVille
                        Legend
                        • May 2008
                        • 9069

                        #12
                        Honestly, IMO, a return of Senquez is the difference between being "good" and "good enough" (to beat NE).
                        I will admit that I'm kinda hoping he wins a spot. BECAUSE that means he's healthy and playing to his 2nd round potential... that with burns, cockrell, sutton could be GOOD.

                        Ideally, you're making Gay and Sensabaugh fight for a spot.

                        And the project can go on the PS (and hopefully stay there)...
                        2013 MNF Executive Champion!

                        Comment

                        • RuthlessBurgher
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 33208

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Slapstick
                          I think Watt will see significant snaps this season and will help ramp up the pressure...if Dupree remains healthy, those two will do great things along with Harrison...

                          The other guy who is overlooked is Coty Sensabaugh...in a Dick LeBeau/Ray Horton coordinated D, he had 8 PDs and 2 INTs, which is pretty good for a slot CB...during the same season, William Gay had 7 PDs and 2 INTs...

                          I think he will provide stability and a veteran presence in the defensive backfield while Burns and Davis continue to develop and the younger CBs (Sutton, Allen, and hopefully Golson) come along...

                          While some think that William Gay might be cut, I think that allowing Shamarko Thomas to go opened up a space for William Gay in a safety role...he's probably the best defensive mind that the Steelers have in the secondary, and he's played a safety-type role on a limited basis in the past...
                          .
                          Trying Gay at safety in Latrobe seems like a reasonable idea, considering that our primary depth at safety behind Mitchell and Davis are Golden and Dangerfield, whereas his competition for the slot corner role between Burns and Cockrell is Sutton, Sensabaugh, and Golson...plus Allen and Shabazz as developmental outside corners with size. Gay's obviously has lost a step, but the knowledge he's accumulated over the years could be beneficial for a move inside.
                          Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                          Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                          We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                          We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                          Comment

                          • Real Deal Steel
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2017
                            • 1229

                            #14
                            And who's he going to cover? Seriously? Josh Gordon? A.J. Green? Breshard Perriman? A 5"9" corner on those Giants? Please......Senquez is taking a roster spot from someone who could really help us.

                            Comment

                            • SteelerOfDeVille
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 9069

                              #15
                              Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher
                              Travis Feeney is on the New Orleans Saints.

                              Behind Cam Heyward and Stephon Tuitt, we have Tyson Alualu, L.T. Walton, and Johnny Maxey.
                              Behind Javon Hargrave, we have Daniel McCullers.
                              Behind Bud Dupree and James Harrison, we have T.J. Watt, Arthur Moats, and Anthony Chickillo.
                              Behind Ryan Shazier and Vince Williams, we have Tyler Matakevich, L.J. Fort, and Steven Johnson.
                              Moats has played both inside and outside. I suspect that he'll see more time inside than outside this season.

                              Bud, TJ and Debo have OLB covered (with Chickillo as a 4th).

                              Shazier, VW and Moats will be the ILBs, with the other guys (plus UDFA) fighting for two spots
                              2013 MNF Executive Champion!

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