Alan Faneca Hines Ward among the finalists for HOF

[Captain Lemming]

Ward should be a first ballot HOF. He checks every box, including statistically.

The man took 4.7 speed, a position change, and a missing ACL, and fashioned a 12+ year career and 1,000 receptions! That is a HOF. It is more of a HOF than a guy blessed with ultra physical talent, who just had to drive the boat straight basically. Hines fought the current the entire way!

I don't think unbiased voters care about "how you got there", that's "fanspeak".
That is why he was not "first ballot".....not even top 15.
Name the guy who's "tougher path" contributed to getting to the HOF? It doesn't matter. Its on the merits of accomplishments.

I will tell you this, you just descried Randy Moss when you described being blessed with talent, as opposed to the workmanlike Hines.
Wanna bet that Moss gets in long before Hines?
Just like Moss could spot Hines 10 yards and still beat him in a sprint, Moss who qualifies a year later will still get in the HOF first and not break a sweat doing it.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Published: Feb. 4, 2017 at 08:05 p.m. Updated: Feb. 4, 2017 at 10:48 p.m.
Tomlinson, Warner, Terrell Davis inducted into Hall


Gregg Rosenthal
Around The NFL Editor


HOUSTON -- One month after the NFL left San Diego after 56 seasons, perhaps the greatest Chargers player of all time is headed for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

LaDainian Tomlinson was one of seven men named to the 2017 Pro Football Hall of Fame Class, which was revealed Saturday night at NFL Honors. Kurt Warner, Terrell Davis, Kenny Easley, Jason Taylor, Morten Andersen and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones also were inducted.

This class has a little bit of everything. Warner and Davis were Super Bowl heroes that had to wait through years of near-misses when the Hall of Fame class was announced. Andersen is only the second player to only play kicker to make it to Canton, joining Jan Stenerud. Jones was a nominee of the Contributor Committee, while Easley was nominated by the Senior Committee. The inclusion of Easley, Warner and Davis are triumphs for those of us who believe players with shorter, brilliant careers deserve merit over "compilers" that rack up numbers over time.

Former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and Terrell Owens were two notable names that did not make the cut. Nominated as a Contributor Committee candidate, it's fair to wonder when and if Tagliabue will make it this close again. Owens has been denied two straight years and could keep waiting, with Randy Moss on the ballot next season.

Tomlinson and Taylor were the only players in this class who are first-ballot selections. During Tomlinson's incredible prime with the Chargers, he was the best running back in football. Ranked second all-time in rushing touchdowns and fifth all-time in rushing yards, Tomlinson is remembered for his smooth running style and complete game.

Tomlinson set the template for running backs in this pass-happy era, equally adept at short-yardage runs and catching the ball out of the backfield. The NFL MVP in 2006 when he scored 31 touchdowns and gained 2,323 yards from scrimmage, Tomlinson was previously selected by the Hall of Fame as a starter on its All-Decade team of the 2000s. The yards from scrimmage statistic is instructive because of his receiving ability. Tomlinson recorded two of the top seven yardage seasons of all time, and finished in the top five in yards from scrimmage for an incredible seven straight NFL seasons. With the team having announced its move to Los Angeles in January, Tomlinson's induction could be the last great moment for the San Diego Chargers.

Kurt Warner's journey to the Hall of Fame rivals any in history for sheer improbability. After bouncing around the Arena League and NFL Europe, Warner didn't become a full-time starting quarterback until he was 28 years old with the 1999 St. Louis Rams. He wound up winning the MVP and Super Bowl that season, the last player to pull off that double. Warner would win another league MVP and reach two more Super Bowls in a career that continued defying expectations.

After his time in St. Louis, he outplayed Eli Manning during one season in New York. Warner once backed up Josh McCown and Matt Leinart in Arizona before eventually taking over and lighting up the scoreboard on the way to the Cardinals' first Super Bowl appearance. If not for wild endings authored by two other all-time great quarterbacks (Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger), Warner could very well be a three-time Super Bowl champion.

Davis' career with the Broncos was brief, yet brilliant. A sixth-round pick in the 1995 NFL Draft, Davis played his best in the biggest games. He recorded seven straight 100-yard performances spanning the 1997 and 1998 postseason, with the Broncos winning back-to-back Super Bowl titles. (He averaged 142 yards in his playoff career.) Davis was Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowl XXXII after rushing for 157 yards and three TDs against the Packers. If not for Davis, John Elway might never have won a title, much less ridden off into the sunset with two straight trophies.

Davis' career was cut short by a knee injury suffered in his fifth season that all but eliminated his NFL production. Before that, Davis led the league in rushing touchdowns twice and rushed for 2,008 yards in 1998, his last healthy season. He won the MVP that year and was a two-time NFL Offensive Player of the Year.

Jason Taylor's career is almost underrated, so hopefully his inclusion on the first ballot will remind people what a unique player he was. Taylor's size, movement ability and strength against the run and the pass made him ahead of his time. Primarily a defensive end, he could move around the formation and impact plays beyond the box score.

Taylor finished his career with 139.5 sacks, good for sixth at the time of his retirement. He has the most career touchdowns by a front seven player (9) and the most career fumble recoveries with 29. Taylor was the NFL Defensive Player of the Year award in 2006 and was a first-team All-Pro selection two other times. During an often frustrating period for the Miami Dolphins, Taylor was its flag bearer.

The inclusion of Andersen is the biggest surprise in this class. The kicker finished his career as the all-time leading scorer of the New Orleans Saints and the Atlanta Falcons, an almost impossible accomplishment. He also was named to the NFL All-Decade Teams in both the 1980s and 1990s. He finished his career as the NFL all-time leader in points, field goals, games played and field goals over 50 yards.

Easley packed an incredible amount of production into a seven-year career. Known as The Enforcer, Easley was the 1981 AFC Defensive Rookie of the Year, the 1984 NFL Defensive Player of the Year and was recognized as a member of the NFL's 1980s All-Decade team because of four first-team All-Pro nods. Easley is the fourth player elected to the Hall of Fame to play his entire career with the Seahawks, joining Steve Largent, Cortez Kennedy and Walter Jones. Easley's career ended suddenly when irreversible kidney damage was revealed during a physical.

Jerry Jones took over as owner (and personnel chief) of the Cowboys in 1989 and found quick success after firing Tom Landry and hiring Jimmy Johnson. Jones won his third Super Bowl after the 1995 season and has been chasing that level of success since. This induction isn't just about wins and losses. Jones helped "grow the pie" in the NFL by opening up new revenue streams, a tactic that initially ruffled some feathers among NFL ownership. He's known for his forward-thinking financial acumen and deal-making ability, including a big role in negotiations as disparate as television deals to the NFL lockout and the Rams' move to Los Angeles.

[Shoe]

I agree. I will take your point further. He might get to top 15 but will never get in.
With the rule changes, his highlight blocks, legal at the time, look "dirty" under todays changed lense. They will have less bearing than it would in times past.
As a pure receiver he was never "great", more like consistently very good. Numbers wont get him in.

As far as SB MVP, he got it, not because he had an unforgettable game like Lynn Swann or even Santonio Holmes. While a deserving MVP, it was a game without a truly dominant performance. Even the bomb is most memorable more because of the receiver throw from Randall El than the reception.

Consostently very good also applies to Faneca, who I would have behind Hines. They need to put more stock into guys who set the tone for a great team, and Hines certainly did that. Lloyd did that with the 90s teams. These guys personified the attitudes of those teams. Now, in Faneca's favor (to me) is how he played LT for us that one year pretty seamlessly; to me, that year was big for him cuz it showed he wasn't just a one-trick pony. I still think he belongs in the Hall of Very Good though. Warner? All along I said no to him, but he grew on me. I think his rise from supermarket checker really helps him because it is such an amazing feat. He was borderline to me, but the fact that he's a HOF person makes up for it. Class act.

[Captain Lemming]

Consostently very good also applies to Faneca, who I would have behind Hines. They need to put more stock into guys who set the tone for a great team, and Hines certainly did that. Lloyd did that with the 90s teams. These guys personified the attitudes of those teams. Now, in Faneca's favor (to me) is how he played LT for us that one year pretty seamlessly; to me, that year was big for him cuz it showed he wasn't just a one-trick pony. I still think he belongs in the Hall of Very Good though. Warner? All along I said no to him, but he grew on me. I think his rise from supermarket checker really helps him because it is such an amazing feat. He was borderline to me, but the fact that he's a HOF person makes up for it. Class act.

Faneca was 1st team All Pro 6 times. He was an All 2000s "decade" team member. A very good case can therefore be made that he was the best guard in the game at for a time.

None of the above can be said of Hines among his receiver peers. Not only is Faneca more deserving, it is not close.

One aspect of Hines "great" was his vicious blocks (yes legal at the time). In today's NFL that will gain him no points.

[Captain Lemming]

They need to put more stock into guys who set the tone for a great team, and Hines certainly did that. Lloyd did that with the 90s teams.

Again fanspeak my friend.
"Set the tone" is so vague and cannot be quantified. Brown has never set the tone on a "great" team, yet is unquestionably in the conversation for best receiver in the league. Does that make him less valuable?

Browns teams almost without exception has out scored the 2008 championship team which featured a much greater defense. Only way Hines could make THIS team great would be to use his great hands and hard hits as a SAFETY.

[phillyesq]

Faneca was 1st team All Pro 6 times. He was an All 2000s "decade" team member. A very good case can therefore be made that he was the best guard in the game at for a time.

None of the above can be said of Hines among his receiver peers. Not only is Faneca more deserving, it is not close.

One aspect of Hines "great" was his vicious blocks (yes legal at the time). In today's NFL that will gain him no points.

Interesting with Faneca vs. Hines. Faneca was probably the second best guard of his era, behind Hutchinson. And he had a great pulling block on Parker's long SB TD run. It will take him a while to get into the HOF because of his position, but he'll get in. And he has a cleaner and easier case for induction than Hines Ward.

With that said, if you look at the player who contributed more to the Steelers success during that era, I think every one of us is likely to select Ward.

[Shoe]

Faneca was 1st team All Pro 6 times. He was an All 2000s "decade" team member. A very good case can therefore be made that he was the best guard in the game at for a time.

None of the above can be said of Hines among his receiver peers. Not only is Faneca more deserving, it is not close.

One aspect of Hines "great" was his vicious blocks (yes legal at the time). In today's NFL that will gain him no points.

WR is much more competitive than Guard. Think of guys like Bruce Matthews, Randall McDaniel, Will Shields, Larry Allen. I think all of them had like 10+ Pro Bowls. Besides Jerry Rice, I doubt any WR had that many berths. What it tells me is that it is easier to pile up accolades at Guard then it is at WR. He11, look at Decastro this year (down year, still made PB).

[Captain Lemming]

WR is much more competitive than Guard. Think of guys like Bruce Matthews, Randall McDaniel, Will Shields, Larry Allen. I think all of them had like 10+ Pro Bowls. Besides Jerry Rice, I doubt any WR had that many berths. What it tells me is that it is easier to pile up accolades at Guard then it is at WR. He11, look at Decastro this year (down year, still made PB).

Pro bowls don't mean jack squat. So many replacement plus there are plenty of spots.

1st team All Pro means something. You are considered the best at your position.
Here is something to digest:
All those HOFers and NO Steeler IN HISTORY has more 1st team all pro selections than Faneca's 6.

During the the decade spanning 2000-2010 THE ONLY ONE OTHER PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE NFL (Ray Lewis) can match or top Faneca's number of all pro selections.

Hines OTOH HAS NEVER ONCE been good enough to be a first team all pro. He was never once good enough to be in the conversation of the very best in the league.

Thats not about how "competitive" the position is. Hines could not do it once.

Faneca was a MUCH BETTER guard than Hines was as a receiver.

Hines will never be a HOFer, rightfully so.

[Real Deal Steel]

Love ward but he isn't a HOF.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Tony Dungy lobbies for Donnie Shell in the Hall of Fame
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 3, 2017, 8:45 AM EDT

When Tony Dungy was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, he asked his old teammate Donnie Shell to present him in Canton. Now Dungy wants to see Shell get a bust of his own.

Asked today on PFT Live which former player he thinks is most deserving of a spot in Canton, Dungy didn’t hesitate.

“That would definitely be my old Steelers roommate Donnie Shell. Donnie has 51 interceptions, 19 fumble recoveries, 70 takeaways in his career, four Super Bowl rings. Just an outstanding player and in my opinion should be in the Hall of Fame,” Dungy said.

Shell, a five-time Pro Bowler and three-time first-team All-Pro who played for the Steelers from 1974 to 1987, made the list of 15 Hall of Fame finalists just once, in 2002. He would now have to be nominated by the senior committee, which always seems to have a backlog of good candidates. Shell has so far been overlooked, but Dungy is doing his best to keep his buddy’s name in the voters’ minds.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/03/tony-dungy-lobbies-for-donnie-shell-in-the-hall-of-fame/

[RuthlessBurgher]

Faneca passing on the knowledge
Posted 3 hours ago

Teresa Varley
Steelers.com

Alan Faneca is working with the Steelers offensive line and tight ends during training camp.

LATROBE, Pa. – If the Steelers offensive line were part of the selection committee, Alan Faneca would already be enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

They are fans of his, not just because he wore the black and gold and is helping them during training camp, but because they know the type of player he was.

“A guy like him, he is a Hall of Famer in all of our books,” said Ramon Foster. “We have heard so much about him, know much about him, what he accomplished. Having him here passing on his wisdom and stories, I think it’s cool as ever. I enjoy having him around every year.”

Faneca, a Hall of Fame finalist the last two years, has been working with the Steelers’ offensive line and tight ends as a coaching intern during training camp for the second straight year.

“It’s fun. It’s good to be back,” said Faneca. “Having done it last year, knowing the guys, checking back in on them and seeing how they have progressed, what they are up to, their off the field life, it’s been fun.”

Being back around the game he loves so much is something Faneca has given a lot of thought to. He said he would love to get into coaching if the situation is right, and is taking advantage of this opportunity to continue to learn from offensive line coach Mike Munchak and tight ends coach James Daniel.

“You play football your whole life and then you are away from it,” said Faneca. “To come back and be a part of it again is fun. You retire, leave the game, and everyone asks if you miss playing. The answer generally is no. I miss it during the playoffs and the guys in the locker room, that kind of stuff. That is what most guys would tell you they miss. Here I solve one of those, being back in the atmosphere, enjoying football. It’s something I have come to enjoy and I really could see myself doing it.”

The highlight for him now is being able to share some tricks of the trade and some tips, especially with the younger players who have said his guidance has been helpful.

“You don’t always know if things sink in when you say things,” said Faneca. “You have to tell different guys different things. Different guys are at different stages of their careers. To know some of them retain it and put it to use feels good.

“I always try to find stuff they haven’t been told before, didn’t know and try to put it to use. If you see somebody do something, not a mistake, where the block is harder than it should be, and if they can try something different, to give them that little tidbit to make their life easier, that is a win for me.”

And for the Steelers offensive line, a win for them would be seeing Faneca get his due and be enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

“I appreciate their support a ton,” said Faneca. “I have just as much respect hearing it coming from those guys. Those are the guys in the trenches doing the same things I have done. It’s nice to know they have that kind of respect for me, the game and the guys who came before them.”

Social Spotlight:

This city has embraced me with open arms, I can't thank y'all enough! pic.twitter.com/p83dGjHHfj
— JuJu Smith-Schuster (@TeamJuJu) August 16, 2017

What a blessing!! #thankYouGod pic.twitter.com/Ja29IaveJH
— Sammie Coates (@sammiecoates11) August 15, 2017

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Faneca-passing-on-the-knowledge/edfd6b6d-66d3-4c92-aa9d-93b5198f88ea

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Love ward but he isn't a HOF.

That's wrong and here's why: STATS alone doesn't make a HOF player. Otherwise Swann wouldn't be there. If I'm being honest, Swanny's there really because he was really graceful and it looked cool to make those big catches in the Super Bowl. They were HUGE catches, but, his numbers don't exactly read HOF player.

Having said that, HOF players are selected because of impact on the game and memories they caused (and Swanny nailed it here). If you can say, "player x was the best all-time at ___", then they have left a legacy that needs to be remembered. (Great example, is "best big back of all time")

But, guys like Terrell Davis, Kurt Warner, Gale Sayers prove that career numbers aren't necessarily everything.

Still, Hines had them - upon retirement, Hines ranked 8th all time in receptions, 18th in receiving yards, and 13th in TDs. He was top 20 in all 3 major receiving categories. Moreover, had he not played on one the more run-dominant teams in the NFL, he could easily have been top 10 (if not top 5) in all 3 categories. Take all that and consider that he was the best blocking WR of all time (i.e., impact/memories/doing stuff to make his team WIN). Not a first ballot guy, but, unquestionably a HOF player, IMO.

[Slapstick]

I've stated this before, but if you look at Hines' per game stats for catches and yards, you'd see that his catches and yards per game went up in the post season, when HoFer Tim Brown's numbers, for example, went down...Hines elevated his game for the playoffs...if that doesn't matter to HoF voters, it damn well should...

[Captain Lemming]

That's wrong and here's why: STATS alone doesn't make a HOF player. Otherwise Swann wouldn't be there. If I'm being honest, Swanny's there really because he was really graceful and it looked cool to make those big catches in the Super Bowl. They were HUGE catches, but, his numbers don't exactly read HOF player.

Having said that, HOF players are selected because of impact on the game and memories they caused (and Swanny nailed it here). If you can say, "player x was the best all-time at ___", then they have left a legacy that needs to be remembered. (Great example, is "best big back of all time")

You are correct about it not being all about numbers, and Swanns example of this. And I agree completely that it was Swanns unforgettable plays of grace that trumped his modest numbers. But this is the difference.
If you polled fans about who the best receiver was it would be Lynn Swann. If you asked 10,000 non football fans to name a receiver, Lynn Swann would be at the top of the list and it would not be close. I would venture you could combine numbers 2 and 3 and you would not get the same name recognition as Swann. That is why he is in. It is after all a hall of "fame". Stallworth was the better player in my opinion, and he got in YEARS later.

Hines is considered "very good" but not "great" by non-Steeler fans. Ask people who the greatest receiver was in the 70s and Swann will compete with anybody. Hines in the 2000s? Plenty of other names. And Ward competes with others in a much more prolific passing league. You got Moss, Owens,
I really am not a hater, I loved Wards gritty play. But I dont go "homer" and try to view our players as a non-Steeler fan would.

If Brown got hit by a bus tomorrow, he would be more HOF worthy than Hines in four years in my opinion.

But, guys like Terrell Davis, Kurt Warner, Gale Sayers prove that career numbers aren't necessarily everything.

If in your short career you are considered the best in the entire league. Shinning brightly over a short time matters.

Still, Hines had them - upon retirement, Hines ranked 8th all time in receptions, 18th in receiving yards, and 13th in TDs. He was top 20 in all 3 major receiving categories. Moreover, had he not played on one the more run-dominant teams in the NFL, he could easily have been top 10 (if not top 5) in all 3 categories. Take all that and consider that he was the best blocking WR of all time (i.e., impact/memories/doing stuff to make his team WIN). Not a first ballot guy, but, unquestionably a HOF player, IMO.

Hines also played in an era of huge passing numbers. If you want to go by number among his peers are people who put up higher numbers who are waiting, and others near the end of their career.

[Captain Lemming]

Tony Dungy lobbies for Donnie Shell in the Hall of Fame
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 3, 2017, 8:45 AM EDT

When Tony Dungy was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, he asked his old teammate Donnie Shell to present him in Canton. Now Dungy wants to see Shell get a bust of his own.

Asked today on PFT Live which former player he thinks is most deserving of a spot in Canton, Dungy didn’t hesitate.

“That would definitely be my old Steelers roommate Donnie Shell. Donnie has 51 interceptions, 19 fumble recoveries, 70 takeaways in his career, four Super Bowl rings. Just an outstanding player and in my opinion should be in the Hall of Fame,” Dungy said.

Shell, a five-time Pro Bowler and three-time first-team All-Pro who played for the Steelers from 1974 to 1987, made the list of 15 Hall of Fame finalists just once, in 2002. He would now have to be nominated by the senior committee, which always seems to have a backlog of good candidates. Shell has so far been overlooked, but Dungy is doing his best to keep his buddy’s name in the voters’ minds.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/03/tony-dungy-lobbies-for-donnie-shell-in-the-hall-of-fame/

BTW, the fact that Shell is not in is a travesty