hmmmm.....this seems relevant.

[Starlifter]

I don't generally place much stock in individual game statistics. too easy to manipulate. I like to look for trends. after mallet just put up career high numbers against this defense I was thinking to myself 'how many times has that happened this season?'. so i looked up some stats. I could have gone with qb rating and maybe that is the better stat to look at - but it seemed to me that QB after QB was picking apart our secondary all year and gashing them for whatever gains they needed. Here's what I found:

this is how many yards opposing QB's threw for against the steelers and how it stacked up with the rest of their season.

1. brady 288 9th best performance - but 143.8 rating (best)
2. kapernick 335 2nd best
3. foles 197 5th best
4. flacco 189 8th best
5. rivers 365 3rd best
6. palmer 421 best
7. smith 251 6th best
8. dalton 231 10th
9. carr 301 6th best
10. manziel 372 best
11. wilson 345 best
12. hasselbeck 169 3rd worst
13. mccarron 280 best
14. osweiler 296 2nd best
15. mallet 274 best

If you ignore single games and look for a trend, in 9 out of 15 games the opposing QB threw for yards that achieved their 3rd best total for the year or higher. 6 out of the 15 were either their best total or 2nd best total with 5 having their best game of the year.

that's a disaster of epic proportions. you expect premium QB's to have success - but we are making journeymen players look like HOF candidates.

over the last few years the steelers have shored up the o-line, found the best trio of WR's in the game and when bell is healthy put them on the field with the best tandem RB's in the game. I think the d-line is above average. The hole now is our four #1 LB's need to be game changers and if the front office doesn't invest in the secondary and quick - we are going to miss this offensive window. I'm not saying they haven't tried. But for some reason their selections haven't worked out. That simply MUST be the focus this off season.

right now manziel is licking his chops..........

[Ghost]

Interesting. It's always talked about how it appears that back-ups and scrubs become Montana and now you can actually see it. That's head-scratching bad. Thanks for posting.

[squidkid]

this cant be trrue
it has been documented that tomlin has personally put his stamp on this secondary and lake says his dbs are fine.
the problem has to be somewhere else

[ramblinjim]

That's a really sad statement to our secondary. I kept yelling all day "Ryan Flippin' Mallett"!!!!???!?!?!!?!?

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I don't generally place much stock in individual game statistics. too easy to manipulate. I like to look for trends. after mallet just put up career high numbers against this defense I was thinking to myself 'how many times has that happened this season?'. so i looked up some stats. I could have gone with qb rating and maybe that is the better stat to look at - but it seemed to me that QB after QB was picking apart our secondary all year and gashing them for whatever gains they needed. Here's what I found:

this is how many yards opposing QB's threw for against the steelers and how it stacked up with the rest of their season.

1. brady 288 9th best performance - but 143.8 rating (best)
2. kapernick 335 2nd best
3. foles 197 5th best
4. flacco 189 8th best
5. rivers 365 3rd best
6. palmer 421 best
7. smith 251 6th best
8. dalton 231 10th
9. carr 301 6th best
10. manziel 372 best
11. wilson 345 best
12. hasselbeck 169 3rd worst
13. mccarron 280 best
14. osweiler 296 2nd best
15. mallet 274 best

If you ignore single games and look for a trend, in 9 out of 15 games the opposing QB threw for yards that achieved their 3rd best total for the year or higher. 6 out of the 15 were either their best total or 2nd best total with 5 having their best game of the year.

that's a disaster of epic proportions. you expect premium QB's to have success - but we are making journeymen players look like HOF candidates.

over the last few years the steelers have shored up the o-line, found the best trio of WR's in the game and when bell is healthy put them on the field with the best tandem RB's in the game. I think the d-line is above average. The hole now is our four #1 LB's need to be game changers and if the front office doesn't invest in the secondary and quick - we are going to miss this offensive window. I'm not saying they haven't tried. But for some reason their selections haven't worked out. That simply MUST be the focus this off season.

right now manziel is licking his chops..........

Very nice post, excellent, thank you. The pain inflicted by journeymen goes back at least to Tebow, if we don't worm our way in, this game will be like that one in terms of its heart break factor.

The next question is why that happens, and stats won't be able to answer that. Lots of potential reasons, ranging from lack of talent (which has been a constant since about then - Troy was well into his downhill slide, as was Ike, by then ... Big Snack too?), coaching schemes (Butler has been a constant, though that may have no bearing), players always looking to the next game (though if true, that would in the end be due to some combination of the first two), and probably a million other factors.

If forced to, I'd say our problems are 80% (lack of) talent, and 20% other factors.

Either way, thanks Starlifter for taking the time to put your post together.

[Slapstick]

If the Steelers end up missing the playoffs, I can see Carnell Lake being the fall guy for the defense...there is something technically that isn't always matching up with what Butler wants to do...

[papillon]

If the Steelers end up missing the playoffs, I can see Carnell Lake being the fall guy for the defense...there is something technically that isn't always matching up with what Butler wants to do...

Yea, like matching up with receivers would be a good start. There is something mentally wrong with the secondary; wide open and I mean wide open receivers are the norm with these guys.

Pappy

[Notleadpoisoned]

If Johnny Manziel throws for over 400 yards next Sunday I really don't think any Steelers fan would be shocked in the least.

[NorthCoast]

Obviously you are mistaken.

Change is good. The game had past LeBeau by; it was time for the modern defense to take over.

I really would like to know whether Butler was forced to play Blake against his will or this was a conscious decision on his part as best for the defense?

[papillon]

If Johnny Manziel throws for over 400 yards next Sunday I really don't think any Steelers fan would be shocked in the least.

He only has to go for 373 to top his career best mark (set earlier in the year against, wait for it, wait for it, the Steelers).

Pappy

[Ghost]

It’s some combination of neglect at filling the secondary positions along with the talent evaluation of those that do get drafted. How much does Lake have a say in that (he’s been the DB coach since 2011)? Or Tomlin or LeBeau (prior to Butler) or Colbert? Who’s looking at the roster and deciding to not address the secondary?


2010: C. Butler – 5^th. Has played for 7 teams – No INTs.

2011: C. Brown – 3^rd. Bust. Torn ACL. Unsigned FA now.
C. Allen – 4^th. Not lived up to athletic “potential” coming out of Citadel.

2012: T. Frederick – 7^th. 4 teams so far w/ no INTs.

2013: S. Thomas – 4^th. Disappointment. Not even all that good on special teams.
T. Hawthorne – 5^th. Didn’t make team.

2014: S. Richardson – 5^th. Cut. Made PS. Now been on 4 teams in 2 years.

2015: S. Golsen – 2^nd. Praying he is the cover guy/ball hawk he was drafted to be. In trouble if he doesn’t work out.
D. Grant – 4^th. Cut. Put on PS. Called up in Nov. Inactive multiple games. No impact or reportable stats.
G. Hollimon – 7^th. Cut. Not signed by anyone.

[papillon]

It’s some combination of neglect at filling the secondary positions along with the talent evaluation of those that do get drafted. How much does Lake have a say in that (he’s been the DB coach since 2011)? Or Tomlin or LeBeau (prior to Butler) or Colbert? Who’s looking at the roster and deciding to not address the secondary?


2010: C. Butler – 5^th. Has played for 7 teams – No INTs.

2011: C. Brown – 3^rd. Bust. Torn ACL. Unsigned FA now.
C. Allen – 4^th. Not lived up to athletic “potential” coming out of Citadel.

2012: T. Frederick – 7^th. 4 teams so far w/ no INTs.

2013: S. Thomas – 4^th. Disappointment. Not even all that good on special teams.
T. Hawthorne – 5^th. Didn’t make team.

2014: S. Richardson – 5^th. Cut. Made PS. Now been on 4 teams in 2 years.

2015: S. Golsen – 2^nd. Praying he is the cover guy/ball hawk he was drafted to be. In trouble if he doesn’t work out.
D. Grant – 4^th. Cut. Put on PS. Called up in Nov. Inactive multiple games. No impact or reportable stats.
G. Hollimon – 7^th. Cut. Not signed by anyone.

When you see that on paper you really start to realize how bad its been getting secondary help over the past 5 years. Wow, just wow. The sad part is that if they can find a player that can get himself lined up properly it would be an improvement (said facetiously, but with some truth).

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

When you see that on paper you really start to realize how bad its been getting secondary help over the past 5 years. Wow, just wow. The sad part is that if they can find a player that can get himself lined up properly it would be an improvement (said facetiously, but with some truth).

Pappy

Agree again. Hugely frustrating watching players in the secondary screaming and shuffling around at the snap of the ball. Makes you wonder what these guys practice all week. The Ravens were playing backups of backups in their secondary and I didn't see half the amount of shuffling the Steelers defense showed.

Makes one start to wonder whether Butler really is up to the task of DC. I will give him the benefit of the doubt cause he is new to the job (sort of) but the cluster in the secondary is embarrassing at times.

[ramblinjim]

Overall, the defense this year hasn't been horrible....BUT, like we saw yesterday; if the offense doesn't score 30 points, we're in trouble. I don't watch much in the way of college football, so the draft to me is always a crap shoot but it seems like the thing to do would be to take your late round picks in a year like this and look at 'tall, fast, smart' guys and see what you can make of them.

[RuthlessBurgher]

It’s some combination of neglect at filling the secondary positions along with the talent evaluation of those that do get drafted. How much does Lake have a say in that (he’s been the DB coach since 2011)? Or Tomlin or LeBeau (prior to Butler) or Colbert? Who’s looking at the roster and deciding to not address the secondary?


2010: C. Butler – 5^th. Has played for 7 teams – No INTs.

2011: C. Brown – 3^rd. Bust. Torn ACL. Unsigned FA now.
C. Allen – 4^th. Not lived up to athletic “potential” coming out of Citadel.

2012: T. Frederick – 7^th. 4 teams so far w/ no INTs.

2013: S. Thomas – 4^th. Disappointment. Not even all that good on special teams.
T. Hawthorne – 5^th. Didn’t make team.

2014: S. Richardson – 5^th. Cut. Made PS. Now been on 4 teams in 2 years.

2015: S. Golsen – 2^nd. Praying he is the cover guy/ball hawk he was drafted to be. In trouble if he doesn’t work out.
D. Grant – 4^th. Cut. Put on PS. Called up in Nov. Inactive multiple games. No impact or reportable stats.
G. Hollimon – 7^th. Cut. Not signed by anyone.

It's even more striking when you contrast those failures in drafting DB's with successes in drafting wideouts with similar round picks in the same time frame (Wallace in the 3rd, Sanders in the 3rd, Brown in the 6th, Wheaton in the 3rd, Bryant in the 3rd, etc.).