A theory about why we win or lose

[fezziwig]

Antonio Brown is in his head a little too imho. Be it Antonio cries so much Ben locks in on him or Ben is loving the stardom of being compared to Montana and Rice. Just guessing game remarks but for the past 3 seasons it seems to me Ben has been sloppy with throwing innerception

[Shawn]

Ben isnt the type of QB to put a team on his back. If the D keeps it close he can do amazing things but we have never seen Ben carry a team deep in the playoffs.

Ben has always been a great game manager and I think fans made a huge mistake taking it as a dig on his game.

SMH, one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read on this forum. And that's saying much.

[papillon]

Maybe because he's starting to look like Ryan Fitzpatrick! And now plays like him.

If he would have played like Ryan Fitzpatrick yesterday the Steelers would have won the game easily, unfortunately, he played like bad Ben.

Pappy

[papillon]

SMH, one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read on this forum. And that's saying much.

Why do you say that? When the Steelers had a defense for the ages Ben didn't carry the team and he didn't need to. Now the Steelers for the past 4 years have had a declining or rebuilding defense and they need Ben to carry the team and he hasn't. Here's some stats from the beginning of Ben's career. In 2004 they lose in AFCCG with a top defense, 2005 they win the Super Bowl with a top defense, 2006 missed the playoffs with a middle of the pack defense, 2007 one and done with a top defense, 2008 they win the Super Bowl with a defense in the discussion as a great of all time, 2009 missed the playoffs with a middle of the pack defense, 2010 the Super Bowl year the defense was the top dog, 2011 first round loss to Denver with a top defense, 2012 missed the playoffs still with a top defense, 2013 missed the playoffs with a middle of the pack defense, 2014 one and done with a below average defense, 2015 remains to be see, but appears that missing the playoffs is in the cards.

I'm not seeing the Ben "carrying" the team deep into the playoffs when he doesn't have a top defense. I think Feltdizz's statements merit a little more consideration because there seems to be some truth to them. The past seems to support what he is saying, IMO.

Note: I simply used the NFL's defensive rankings of team defense there is no analysis other than to see where the NFL ranked that particular year's defense.

Pappy

[phillyesq]

Which Ints were the cause of being impatient and going downfield today?

without question, teams in a division know more of what teams will try to do vs. them.
Mjust look at the pats today vs. the jets.
No tds for the offense until under 2 mins to play.

Certainly the INT where he ignored Heath - who was wide open about 8 yards down the field - and tried to force it to AB.

[Slapstick]

Certainly the INT where he ignored Heath - who was wide open about 8 yards down the field - and tried to force it to AB.

Do you think he is coached to do that?

[papillon]

Which Ints were the cause of being impatient and going downfield today?

without question, teams in a division know more of what teams will try to do vs. them.
Mjust look at the pats today vs. the jets.
No tds for the offense until under 2 mins to play.

Both in my estimation, the first was forced while under pressure and thrown into triple coverage (approximately 20 yards down field), the second had Heath available for an easy pitch and catch. Here's my question to you. Lets say just for yesterday that any of the following elite quarterbacks play for the Steelers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. You have the Ravens basically sitting in a 2 deep safety defense all effing day long what do those quarterbacks do? Force it 12-15 yards down field or cut you 1,000 times underneath until you are forced to get out of the 2 deep safety defense? 3rd and 15 with 2 minutes to go do any of these guys go for the 30 yard gain to a receiver clearly not having his best day? How about 4th and 15 to an equally struggling receiver?

The INTs aside Ben is not patient enough to beat the type of defense that was played yesterday even when the team playing it is using their backups to the backups.

You can count on one or two fingers the number of times that Tom Brady and the Patriots have failed like they did yesterday.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

Both in my estimation, the first was forced while under pressure and thrown into triple coverage (approximately 20 yards down field), the second had Heath available for an easy pitch and catch. Here's my question to you. Lets say just for yesterday that any of the following elite quarterbacks play for the Steelers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. You have the Ravens basically sitting in a 2 deep safety defense all effing day long what do those quarterbacks do? Force it 12-15 yards down field or cut you 1,000 times underneath until you are forced to get out of the 2 deep safety defense? 3rd and 15 with 2 minutes to go do any of these guys go for the 30 yard gain to a receiver clearly not having his best day? How about 4th and 15 to an equally struggling receiver?

The INTs aside Ben is not patient enough to beat the type of defense that was played yesterday even when the team playing it is using their backups to the backups.

You can count on one or two fingers the number of times that Tom Brady and the Patriots have failed like they did yesterday.

Pappy

I agree with you Pappy. Harbaugh knows Roethlisberger's game all too well, knows he lacks the patience for the dink and dunk. Add to that fact that if Roethlisberger does goes with the dink and dunk they know he will eventually hit the RZ wall where he has struggled for most of his career to score points. Think about it, either way the defense has the edge against him.

[Shawn]

Why do you say that? When the Steelers had a defense for the ages Ben didn't carry the team and he didn't need to. Now the Steelers for the past 4 years have had a declining or rebuilding defense and they need Ben to carry the team and he hasn't. Here's some stats from the beginning of Ben's career. In 2004 they lose in AFCCG with a top defense, 2005 they win the Super Bowl with a top defense, 2006 missed the playoffs with a middle of the pack defense, 2007 one and done with a top defense, 2008 they win the Super Bowl with a defense in the discussion as a great of all time, 2009 missed the playoffs with a middle of the pack defense, 2010 the Super Bowl year the defense was the top dog, 2011 first round loss to Denver with a top defense, 2012 missed the playoffs still with a top defense, 2013 missed the playoffs with a middle of the pack defense, 2014 one and done with a below average defense, 2015 remains to be see, but appears that missing the playoffs is in the cards.

I'm not seeing the Ben "carrying" the team deep into the playoffs when he doesn't have a top defense. I think Feltdizz's statements merit a little more consideration because there seems to be some truth to them. The past seems to support what he is saying, IMO.

Note: I simply used the NFL's defensive rankings of team defense there is no analysis other than to see where the NFL ranked that particular year's defense.

Pappy

Yeah I'm not reading all that. What I will say is that Ben is a franchise QB, first ballot HOF guy who is one of the best to have ever played the game. To say he is a glorified game manager is one of the most ignorant stances I have ever seen taken on these boards. Yes, he has bad games, yes he has some impatience issues and so did Favre. No one would call Favre a game manager.

[feltdizz]

Yeah I'm not reading all that. What I will say is that Ben is a franchise QB, first ballot HOF guy who is one of the best to have ever played the game. To say he is a glorified game manager is one of the most ignorant stances I have ever seen taken on these boards. Yes, he has bad games, yes he has some impatience issues and so did Favre. No one would call Favre a game manager.

Who gives a crap what a QB is called when he is winning playoff games and superbowls.

Freaking idiots... a game manager label is disrespectful but not winning a playoff game in 5 years is acceptable. Smh...

Of course you wint read it because everything pap wrote is true. Its not a knock on Ben, he doesnt need to be the best in everything to be the best QB the Steelers franchise had since Terry Bradshaw. Stop pouting.

[papillon]

Yeah I'm not reading all that. What I will say is that Ben is a franchise QB, first ballot HOF guy who is one of the best to have ever played the game. To say he is a glorified game manager is one of the most ignorant stances I have ever seen taken on these boards. Yes, he has bad games, yes he has some impatience issues and so did Favre. No one would call Favre a game manager.

Nothing I wrote had to do with HOF credentials or comparing Ben to Favre. I did a little research to see when Ben carried the team deep into the playoffs and that is basically not ever. Deep playoff runs are accompanied by a very good defense and no playoffs or one and done playoff runs were without a good defense. So, while Ben is a HOFer he really hasn't carried the team "deep" into the playoffs, he's made some great plays to win games, but he hasn't carried them in the playoffs, IMO.

The closest would be the 2005 run when they won three games on the road and Ben was great in every game, they also had the top defense in the league that year. The last 4 years and possibly this year pending next weekend's results magnify this a bit as well.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Nothing I wrote had to do with HOF credentials or comparing Ben to Favre. I did a little research to see when Ben carried the team deep into the playoffs and that is basically not ever. Deep playoff runs are accompanied by a very good defense and no playoffs or one and done playoff runs were without a good defense. So, while Ben is a HOFer he really hasn't carried the team "deep" into the playoffs, he's made some great plays to win games, but he hasn't carried them in the playoffs, IMO.

The closest would be the 2005 run when they won three games on the road and Ben was great in every game, they also had the top defense in the league that year. The last 4 years and possibly this year pending next weekend's results magnify this a bit as well.

Pappy

Shawn always trots out the "HOF, we dont know how good we have it with Ben" deflection when presented with facts and ugly truths...

[NJ-STEELER]

Both in my estimation, the first was forced while under pressure and thrown into triple coverage (approximately 20 yards down field), the second had Heath available for an easy pitch and catch. Here's my question to you. Lets say just for yesterday that any of the following elite quarterbacks play for the Steelers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. You have the Ravens basically sitting in a 2 deep safety defense all effing day long what do those quarterbacks do? Force it 12-15 yards down field or cut you 1,000 times underneath until you are forced to get out of the 2 deep safety defense? 3rd and 15 with 2 minutes to go do any of these guys go for the 30 yard gain to a receiver clearly not having his best day? How about 4th and 15 to an equally struggling receiver

The INTs aside Ben is not patient enough to beat the type of defense that was played yesterday even when the team playing it is using their backups to the backups.

You can count on one or two fingers the number of times that Tom Brady and the Patriots have failed like they did yesterday.

Pappy

1st. I never realized a 20 'yard pass play is considered deep.
2nd. The only one of those QBs listed who would dink and dunk all game is Brady. The other 2 won't and never have done it a whole game. They throw down the field. (Peyton's prime)

3rd point. Does Brady dink and dunk to likes of nix and spaeth? And will Johnson??? No
Their coaches put them in a position to succeed. They aren't lining up in jumbo packages and telling tom to hit the likes of offensive stalwarts we have in our packages.
As much as it was a bad reason to throw a late int in that bengals game. Will Johnson was equally at fault for not coming back to the ball. Should have been a reception had he done so. At the least an inc pass.
So I ask you, why is someone who was so bad at that aspect out in a pass pattern that late in the game??
Do you think the defense really cares if the steelers come out and pass the ball in those sets? I doubt it, They are easily defensed.

4th. You (not specifically you) complain about forcing the ball to one of the best Wrs in the game when covered on the int. then go complain why he goes to a struggling receiver on 3rd and 15 and on 4th down.
What if AB was covered like everyone says he was on the int? Just how many other options are left?
Can't pass to AB cause that will be 'forcing the ball'. Can't pass to wr2 because he's struggling. Can't pass to the TE unless the defense blows a coverage because he's not quick/fast enough to beat man to man coverage.
Should he pass it to himself?

Do you know how many f***ing times Rodgers, Peyton, and tom tom throw the ball to a player that has a defender draped all over him.
Be it back shoulder shoulder or Down the seam just clearing the defending players helmet because he isn't turned around. Most of the times their receivers make the play, as do the Steeler receivers.

enough of this bs hes "forced the ball". That INT pass intended for AB is a pass play that happens all the time with those other QBs.
If AB comes up with that ball, no one is saying anything


Lastly, I've seen Brady fail like that just to the jets a handful of times over the years. Add in the Ravens, and we're wayyy past the 1 or 2 times 'he eva did it" (Boston accent)

[Shawn]

Noooo NJ Ben is an impatient game manager.

[feltdizz]

Noooo NJ Ben is an impatient game manager.

Only 3 other QB's have more INT's and Ben has missed 4 games this year.