Wrong on Butler?

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  • 7upnext
    Backup
    • Jan 2015
    • 367

    Wrong on Butler?

    I know I'm ready to admit that I was wrong. I thought there would be very little difference between he and Lebeau and that it was a hire made because he was Tomlin's boy. I was quick to jump on the hate bandwagon early and I'm jumping off. When he's had a full compliment of healthy players he's gotten as much out of them as you could expect considering the very real lack of talent in the secondary. Sure, lots of this is based on a pretty soft schedule thus far but just because they might not do as well going forward doesn't mean he's not coaching well. Better teams will expose our general lack of talent but that's not on coaching. Between his hire and Haley's you have to hand it to the Tomlin/Colbert duo. Anyone else wanting to eat crow like me?
  • SteelCrazy
    Legend
    • Aug 2008
    • 5056

    #2
    He needs to get more out of his OLB's then I'll give him the DC of the year award.
    2019 Mock

    1. ILB
    2. CB
    3. ILB
    4. S
    5. CB
    6. ILB
    7. S

    Comment

    • bostonsteeler
      Pro Bowler
      • Oct 2008
      • 1529

      #3
      Originally posted by 7upnext
      I know I'm ready to admit that I was wrong. I thought there would be very little difference between he and Lebeau and that it was a hire made because he was Tomlin's boy. I was quick to jump on the hate bandwagon early and I'm jumping off. When he's had a full compliment of healthy players he's gotten as much out of them as you could expect considering the very real lack of talent in the secondary. Sure, lots of this is based on a pretty soft schedule thus far but just because they might not do as well going forward doesn't mean he's not coaching well. Better teams will expose our general lack of talent but that's not on coaching. Between his hire and Haley's you have to hand it to the Tomlin/Colbert duo. Anyone else wanting to eat crow like me?
      Considering that I wasn't vehemently opposed, I can keep my crow in the freezer. But I must confess I had my concerns about Butler.

      Mighty gracious of you to fess up, though.

      Comment

      • Oviedo
        Legend
        • May 2008
        • 23824

        #4
        Well now that we know being "Tomlin's boy" is as ludicrous a notion as most other criticisms of Tomlin it just proves that for coordinators change is good.

        As much as I got ripped for suggesting that LeBeau wouldn't change we now see the difference changes are making and let's not kid ourselves it would be highly unlikely this defense would not be doing what they are doing this year if LeBeau was still here.

        Give Butler even a mediocre secondary and this defense could be special. I do agree with the sentiment the OLBs much do much more but fortunately Heyward and Tuitt aren't being held back anymore and they are making a difference...what a concept!
        "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

        Comment

        • Captain Lemming
          Legend
          • Jun 2008
          • 16063

          #5
          Originally posted by Oviedo
          Well now that we know being "Tomlin'uns boy" is as ludicrous a notion as most other criticisms of Tomlin it just proves that for coordinators change is good.

          As much as I got ripped for suggesting that LeBeau wouldn't change we now see the difference changes are making and let's not kid ourselves it would be highly unlikely this defense would not be doing what they are doing this year if LeBeau was still here.

          Give Butler even a mediocre secondary and this defense could be special. I do agree with the sentiment the OLBs much do much more but fortunately Heyward and Tuitt aren't being held back anymore and they are making a difference...what a concept!
          Who was our returning sack leader under Lebeau?
          Heyward.
          This time last.season he made his 4th sack in game 10.
          EXACTLY what he just did in game 10 this season.
          No change whatsoever.

          Tuitt is just maturing. As he was in college he will wind up a better pass rusher than Heyward. Probably already is. Is that a scheme thing?

          Tuitt is the first DE in memory who was a dominant rusher at a major college.
          Therefore, one would expect he will be a more dominant DE pass rusher than anyone we have ever had in a 3/4.

          If Smith and fat slow Kimo V could both have had 8 sack seasons, Tuitt should easily be able to get double digits.

          I love what Butler brings because his tweaks are a natural evolution of Lebeaus defense.
          Last edited by Captain Lemming; 11-17-2015, 10:05 AM.
          sigpic



          In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

          TCFCLTC-
          The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

          Comment

          • WindyCitySteel
            Legend
            • Nov 2011
            • 15684

            #6
            My only problems are Blake on the field and McLendon off in the nickel. Biggest holes are pass defense with AB and nickel run defense.

            Comment

            • Slapstick
              Rookie
              • May 2008
              • 0

              #7
              Originally posted by Captain Lemming
              Who was our returning sack leader under Lebeau?
              Heyward.
              This time last.season he made his 4th sack in game 10.
              EXACTLY what he just did in game 10 this season.
              No change whatsoever.

              Tuitt is just maturing. As he was in college he will wind up a better pass rusher than Heyward. Probably already is. Is that a scheme thing?

              Tuitt is the first DE in memory who was a dominant rusher at a major college.
              Therefore, one would expect he will be a more dominant DE pass rusher than anyone we have ever had in a 3/4.

              If Smith and fat slow Kimo V could both have had 8 sack seasons, Tuitt should easily be able to get double digits.

              I love what Butler brings because his tweaks are a natural evolution of Lebeaus defense.
              I wonder if it was Colbert or Tomlin (or both!) who decided to spend premium draft picks on the DL...I think they tried with Ziggy Hood but may have struck gold with both Heyward and Tuitt...
              Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

              Comment

              • squidkid
                Legend
                • Feb 2012
                • 5847

                #8
                Originally posted by Slapstick
                I wonder if it was Colbert or Tomlin (or both!) who decided to spend premium draft picks on the DL...I think they tried with Ziggy Hood but may have struck gold with both Heyward and Tuitt...

                im sure neither
                steeler always pick BPA so im guessing those 2 just happened to be next on their draft list
                steelers = 3 ring circus with tomlin being the head clown

                Comment

                • Eddie Spaghetti
                  Hall of Famer
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 4123

                  #9
                  I thought lebeau did all the drafting on defense

                  Or is it Tomlin when they pan out?

                  Comment

                  • BradshawsHairdresser
                    Legend
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 7056

                    #10
                    Originally posted by WindyCitySteel
                    My only problems are Blake on the field and McLendon off in the nickel. Biggest holes are pass defense with AB and nickel run defense.
                    Yup. If they could get an upgrade for Blake, it would help immensely. And statistics bear out that the Steelers really get gashed on the run when McLendon is not in there. Figure those two things out and this D might be good enough to win a championship with.

                    Comment

                    • RuthlessBurgher
                      Legend
                      • May 2008
                      • 33208

                      #11
                      Pass-rush rotation has contributed to uptick in QB sacks for Steelers

                      By Mark Kaboly
                      Tuesday, Nov. 17, 2015, 9:12 p.m.
                      Updated 12 hours ago

                      Joey Porter is adjusting nicely from being one of the NFL's premier pass rushers to his role as an assistant coach.


                      However, Porter learned something during the Steelers' game against the Oakland Raiders on Nov. 8 that he won't soon forget:


                      Don't try to take James Harrison off the field on a pass-rushing down.


                      Porter tried. Harrison waved Jarvis Jones off the field, and Porter learned a valuable lesson he seemed to forget in the 10 months since he was promoted to the Steelers' newly created outside linebacker coaching position: don't take the pass rusher off the field in a pass-rushing situation.


                      And especially don't do it with Harrison.


                      “I have to be smart because if I sub him on third down, he's going to do the wave off,” Porter said. “I am not counting the plays. I am just looking at the energy, and if I see the energy is dying, I am sending fresh bodies.”


                      Porter should've known better because he used to do the same thing not that long ago. Porter played 13 years in the league, eight with the Steelers, and had 98 career sacks. If somebody tried to replace him on a third down, well ...


                      “When they tried and come to get me, I would be like, ‘Nah, I'm good,' ” Porter said.


                      It has been only four years since Porter retired, but the game has changed significantly since then. For the Steelers, that change on defense occurred this year.


                      Because of more up-tempo and spread-type offensive schemes, defenses have countered with a rotation of pass rushers to ensure they have fresh players on the field at all times.


                      Last year, Jason Worilds averaged 61 snaps. This year, the four outside linebackers of Harrison, Jones, Arthur Moats and Bud Dupree are averaging between 32 and 39 snaps, and yes, it is by design.


                      And, yes, it is Porter's call of when and how long each player plays.


                      The Steelers have a rotation where Jones and Moats start and Dupree and Harrison come in every other series, but it is Porter who decides whether somebody needs a break.


                      “I try to rotate them to keep them fresh,” Porter said. “Sometimes they play longer series than others. I try to manage it because I don't want anybody tired out there. I am watching them, watching how much energy they have. Sometimes they have a nine- or 10-play drive, and I don't know how good your pass rush is going to be on that 11th play.


                      “So if you look like you are tired, I am going to send another fresh body in there.”


                      It's a perfect plan for the Steelers and the situation they are in this year.


                      Harrison is 37 but still is capable of being disruptive in short spurts. Dupree is a rookie and needs to get acclimated to the NFL without being exposed. Jones and Moats are the starters.


                      “At the beginning of the year, it was an adjustment, but now it is at the point where we are accustomed to it and that's what we do,” Moats said. “When you have guys coming off the bench putting up numbers as well, we are all competing against each other to make sure we are the best.”


                      For Dupree, it has been a little more of a challenge going from playing 70 snaps per game in college to 30 in the pros.


                      “It's hard to get into a rhythm, but you have to do what you have to do,” Dupree said. “It is the best way to keep us all in the game so we can contribute.”


                      Through 10 games, the sacks are down for the outside linebackers — Dupree has four and Harrison, Moats and Jones two each — compared to previous years, but sacks for the team are up. The Steelers' 28 sacks are their most in the first 10 games of a season since 2010, and they believe having fresh outside rushers could be a contributor.


                      “I played with Jason Taylor at the end of my career, and he was playing 35 plays a game, but he was still cashing out in sacks,” Porter said. “If I am fresh and he's tired, I like my chances.”


                      The Steelers aren't alone in doing it. The Broncos employed a similar philosophy before first-round pick Shane Ray injured his knee. Von Miller and Demarcus Ware, along with Shaquil Barrett and Ray, would share snaps. The Broncos lead the NFL with 32 sacks, with their outside linebackers accounting for 16.

                      “All of them are getting sacks,” Porter said. “It is just the way the game is going now. You look at like why would you take Von Miller off the field? Because he's tired. You can't pass rush 50 plays in a row and all of them be hot.”


                      [URL]http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/9453668-74/porter-steelers-pass#axzz3rqEQqm00[/URL]


                      Steelers outside linebacker snaps by game:

                      Player 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Total

                      Bud Dupree 26 51 23 45 36 48 28 37 38 38 370

                      James Harrison 38 50 25 48 39 50 29 39 39 DNP 357

                      Arthur Moats 20 39 27 39 39 46 35 30 32 33 340

                      Jarvis Jones 24 40 25 26 36 DNP 33 28 31 46 287
                      Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                      Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                      We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                      We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                      Comment

                      • Slapstick
                        Rookie
                        • May 2008
                        • 0

                        #12
                        Well, according to some, either:

                        The pass rushers suck...

                        or

                        The coaching is bad...


                        The third alternative is that "some" are wrong.
                        Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                        Comment

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