Haley, Ben, or both?

[WindyCitySteel]

We all agree that some of these play calls are brain dead stupid, but can't Ben check out of them? 11-year vet, franchise QB, team leader - he can't be blameless here.

When seeing the Pats back in a zone, why even run the AB pass play? 3rd and goal from the five and we run DW - can't he check out?

Ditto with the clock mgmt. Why can't Ben stop the clock at the end of the first half, or before the 2:00 minute warning?

[feltdizz]

Ben isn't that smart... great QB but he isn't really one of those QB's who tries to draw the D offsides or snaps the ball before the other team is set.

He is old school, it's all about beating you physically... not mentally.

[papillon]

We all agree that some of these play calls are brain dead stupid, but can't Ben check out of them? 11-year vet, franchise QB, team leader - he can't be blameless here.

When seeing the Pats back in a zone, why even run the AB pass play? 3rd and goal from the five and we run DW - can't he check out?

Ditto with the clock mgmt. Why can't Ben stop the clock at the end of the first half, or before the 2:00 minute warning?

This was exactly my thoughts especially after the way he ran the offense last year. On the 3rd and five with a running play called,IMO, Ben has two options, call a timeout or audible out of the play, even with the success the Steelers were having running the football gaining 5 yards on a running play inside the 10 yard line is a rare occurrence. You rarely surprise an NFL team with that play call.

The trickeration play was called too early in the game, with the running game gouging them and Ben moving the ball through the air you keep that play in your back pocket for a crucial time in the game after you have set it up with multiple WR screens or little pitch and catch completions. It failed, IMO, because, the pats weren't set up for the play, they had no reason to bite and come and make a tackle on Brown the Steelers had only run 5 or 6 plays. That play requires a games worth of set up to be successful.

The clock management continues to befuddle me, you would think by now that this would not be an issue, but stunningly it is. A coach in his 9th year and a quarterback in his 11th year should not have issues managing the clock, but its evident that they do.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

I still put more blame on Haley. He takes the ball out of Ben's hands too much in the RZ.

[WindyCitySteel]

I still put more blame on Haley. He takes the ball out of Ben's hands too much in the RZ.

Agreed, but Ben should be able to check out of it. I'm fine with trying to punch it in from the 1, but not the 5 on 3rd down.

Anyway, the schedule gets all kinds of brutal after SF. They simply must win that game and start correcting some of these issues.

[feltdizz]

Agreed, but Ben should be able to check out of it. I'm fine with trying to punch it in from the 1, but not the 5 on 3rd down.

Anyway, the schedule gets all kinds of brutal after SF. They simply must win that game and start correcting some of these issues.

yeah, as much as I want to blame Haley...Ben is in his 11th year. Alsonwouldnt be surprised if Ben checked for he run. There are times when we blame Haley then find out Ben checked into a running play.

[7upnext]

We all agree that some of these play calls are brain dead stupid, but can't Ben check out of them? 11-year vet, franchise QB, team leader - he can't be blameless here.

When seeing the Pats back in a zone, why even run the AB pass play? 3rd and goal from the five and we run DW - can't he check out?

Ditto with the clock mgmt. Why can't Ben stop the clock at the end of the first half, or before the 2:00 minute warning?

The truth is Ben is pretty dumb as far as QB IQ goes. He has never and will never be the kind of QB like Peyton, Manning, Luck, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc that calls successful audibles, has good pre-snap recognition or call for blitz protections. He also is in love with the big play and for most of his career (until Haley finally got him to buy in) he wouldn't take the easier underneath outlets or run (did this in Pats game too). That said, nobody in the history of the league is better at improvisation or extending plays and certainly harder to get down. You take the good with the bad.

The infamous trick play call that killed that drive wasn't a bad call but once the defense showed zone with the safeties able to see the play unfolding before them it should have been changed by Ben at the LOS. Somehow fans that just don't understand football blame Haley. We've now had 11 years of history that shows this sort of play is really on Ben.

The clock management is really on Tomlin. Again...Ben is not cerebral so expecting him to do this is asking too much.

[DBR96A]

Discussions like this are one of the main reasons why I increasingly dissociate myself from other Steeler fans. You wanna know who's really dumb here? People who call a QB who's had only 1.96% of his passes intercepted in the last five seasons dumb. Posts #2 and #7 are null and ****ing void.

[winwithd]

I thought they practice clock management/end of game situations every day in camp. That's why this stuff surprises me when it happens.

[WindyCitySteel]

I thought they practice clock management/end of game situations every day in camp. That's why this stuff surprises me when it happens.

Maybe they bungle them in practice, too.

[WindyCitySteel]

Discussions like this are one of the main reasons why I increasingly dissociate myself from other Steeler fans. You wanna know who's really dumb here? People who call a QB who's had only 1.96% of his passes intercepted in the last five seasons dumb. Posts #2 and #7 are null and ****ing void.

Unbunch your panties. Ben is a HOF QB - gamer, winner, amazing passer, but he's not a smart signal caller. There's no shame in that, it just is what it is. We won four Super Bowls with a similar guy in the 70s.

[Flasteel]

The truth is Ben is pretty dumb as far as QB IQ goes. He has never and will never be the kind of QB like Peyton, Manning, Luck, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc that calls successful audibles, has good pre-snap recognition or call for blitz protections. He also is in love with the big play and for most of his career (until Haley finally got him to buy in) he wouldn't take the easier underneath outlets or run (did this in Pats game too). That said, nobody in the history of the league is better at improvisation or extending plays and certainly harder to get down. You take the good with the bad.

The infamous trick play call that killed that drive wasn't a bad call but once the defense showed zone with the safeties able to see the play unfolding before them it should have been changed by Ben at the LOS. Somehow fans that just don't understand football blame Haley. We've now had 11 years of history that shows this sort of play is really on Ben.

The clock management is really on Tomlin. Again...Ben is not cerebral so expecting him to do this is asking too much.

I think you're tossing out a bunch of crap here. Attacking Ben's quarterbacking acumen is absurd. The primary evolution in his game has been from the head up and I guarantee you that he can diagnose anything he sees out of an opposing defense. His understanding and command of the Steeler offense is also as good as any other quarterback in this league. You have nothing to base your assertions on and the statistical evidence alone is enough to debunk your claim.

As far as the trick play goes...I agree that it wasn't necessarily a bad call, but it certainly wasn't a necessary one. We had that defense on the ropes. If it worked, it would have been a brilliant call in everyone's mind. However, you're not going to audible out of the call because they have two deep safeties who can "see the play". Your hope is that the safeties bite on pass to Brown and the defense flows towards him, leaving someone uncovered or with a step on their defender down field.

I have more of a problem with the design than the call. The intent was clearly and emphatically telegraphed with the backwards pass. Then Brown ran across the formation, which gave the defense time to recover downfield and hunt him down in the wash. To top it off, it looked like there was only one receiver in pattern down field with nobody even crossing back across with Brown or releasing down the middle. Maybe I missed someone, but that's what it looked like on replay.

The clock management is definitely on Tomlin. But to say that Ben is too stupid to be relied upon to call a time out in crunch time is again absurd. It seems to me as if you are inferring that you know how to better manage the clock, yet our own Super Bowl-winning Pro Bowl veteran quarterback is not cerebral enough to grasp such nuances of the game. Either element of that is laughable. The fact that you rag on the football ignorance of other fans really makes this all kind of funny...in an ironic and pathetic way.

[feltdizz]

Unbunch your panties. Ben is a HOF QB - gamer, winner, amazing passer, but he's not a smart signal caller. There's no shame in that, it just is what it is. We won four Super Bowls with a similar guy in the 70s.

exactly... lol.

[feltdizz]

I think you're tossing out a bunch of crap here. Attacking Ben's quarterbacking acumen is absurd. The primary evolution in his game has been from the head up and I guarantee you that he can diagnose anything he sees out of an opposing defense. His understanding and command of the Steeler offense is also as good as any other quarterback in this league. You have nothing to base your assertions on and the statistical evidence alone is enough to debunk your claim.

As far as the trick play goes...I agree that it wasn't necessarily a bad call, but it certainly wasn't a necessary one. We had that defense on the ropes. If it worked, it would have been a brilliant call in everyone's mind. However, you're not going to audible out of the call because they have two deep safeties who can "see the play". Your hope is that the safeties bite on pass to Brown and the defense flows towards him, leaving someone uncovered or with a step on their defender down field.

I have more of a problem with the design than the call. The intent was clearly and emphatically telegraphed with the backwards pass. Then Brown ran across the formation, which gave the defense time to recover downfield and hunt him down in the wash. To top it off, it looked like there was only one receiver in pattern down field with nobody even crossing back across with Brown or releasing down the middle. Maybe I missed someone, but that's what it looked like on replay.

The clock management is definitely on Tomlin. But to say that Ben is too stupid to be relied upon to call a time out in crunch time is again absurd. It seems to me as if you are inferring that you know how to better manage the clock, yet our own Super Bowl-winning Pro Bowl veteran quarterback is not cerebral enough to grasp such nuances of the game. Either element of that is laughable. The fact that you rag on the football ignorance of other fans really makes this all kind of funny...in an ironic and pathetic way.

Well... not to defend 7up but how long did it take for Ben to change his game? It's year 11 so it's not surprising that he has full command of this offense but with all these weapons he should have way more points on the board. It's not all his fault, others make mistakes as well but how many times have we talked about poor clock management and how Ben should have used a TO in crunch time?

I don't know who made that call for the trick play but it was one of the dumbest calls I have ever seen given how well the O was moving the ball. You set a team up to run that play in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Who the hell runs that play on the first drive?

[Mr.wizard]

My question is how do you know? How do you know the pats where not in the right defense for that trick play? How do you know what Ben checks in and out of during a game? I see him all the time yelling, alert! alert! or kill! kill! at line, that usually indicates he is changing the play. It's so easy to play arm chair QB after the play is over and say wow that didn't work he should have checked out of the play. Trick plays are not run on a whim, Field position, down and distance, and defensive personnel packages all dictate when a trick play is called, they work on these play all the time and they thought they had the right situation for it.