Sad Day In Steelers' Sports History

[flippy]

Bill Belichick wins SuperBowl #4 and ties Chuck Noll as one of 2 coaches with 4 Super Bowl victories.

Has Bill firmly established himself as the greatest coach of all time?

I suspect half the answers to the question will be - "but he cheated."

I say it's irrelevant. We cheated, they cheated, everyone in the NFL cheats on some level. Let's just look at what both men accomplished:

Bill Belichick - 20 years
Wins/Losses - 211/109
Win % - .659
Playoff Wins/Losses - 22/9
Playoff Win % - .710

Chuck Noll - 23 years
Wins/Losses - 193/148
Win % - .566
Playoff Wins/Losses - 16/8
Playoff Win % - .667

With equal amounts of SuperBowls, I'm not sure how you can give the edge to Noll any longer. He didn't win as high a percentage of games in the regular season or playoffs. Bill has been to 2 more SuperBowls.

Maybe you could argue the Patriot teams were not as dominant as the Steelers Super Bowl winners. But that takes away the context of the era of when they played. It's much more difficult to assemble a team in the era of Free Agency.

You can also argue Belichick has been far more consistent over a longer time. After his first season in NE, he's had 14 straight winning seasons. And incredibly, they were only under 10 wins in one of those seasons.

The length of their run is pretty amazing. And there's no reason to think they are going to drop off in production now. They will still be at the top of the AFC for the next several years contending for the Super Bowl.

Another thing to consider - after Chuck Noll's 4th SuperBowl, he coached another 12 seasons. In those 12 seasons, he had 1 season with 10 victories. None better than 10.

Bill B started out slow in his first 6 seasons, but has been amazing since. I hate the Patriots, so I'm basically looking for any argument that they suck. But I just can't find the story of the Patriots sucking in their numbers and results over the year.

I'm looking for evidence that has nothing to do with cheating. That's a cheap, weak, and lazy argument imho. So what have you got to make my day brighter?

The only cure might be winning another Lombardi...

[tiproast]

Good post, Flippy.

From a Greg Bedard column in SI:

"It doesn’t look like it’s the end for this group. The Patriots were the youngest team ever to win a Super Bowl, with an average age of 25.2 years."

I know this isn't going to make your day brighter, but I thought you might like to know about it.

[Slapstick]

They did cheat and it is relevant.

[Steelhere10]

Different time different era. pats play in a division that haven't had a decent Qb in 15 years. Noll coached against several dynasty teams. Case closed.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Belichick doesn't win those first 3 SB's without illegal videotaping/Ernie Adams/plays being radioed in to Brady illegally. When it comes to actual coaching performance, Belicheat should not even be mentioned in the same breath as Chuck Noll.

[flippy]

And we don't win our superbowls if our players aren't on steroids or we don't mysteriously lose college game tape of guys like john stallworth, etc.

I'm really trying to avoid going down the ethical/moral slope of this argument. Heck, our owner was into gambling and owned racetracks. Mixing gambling interests in football doesn't really form a solid base of putting our team on the high moral ground.

I'm assuming at the base of the argument that every team will try to win at all costs. Everyone cuts corners somewhere. I really don't see the Pats cheating as any worse than anything that anyone else tries to do.

So if you take that away, how do you make the case that Noll was better?

[Steelhere10]

In an era with
Cowboys
Raiders
Dolphins
Oilers
Browns etc vs a division
With Jets, Dolphins Bills. Name 1 Qb capable of winning that division. Plus back then some of the stuff you are naming was not illegal back then. When it is and you still cheat is ummmm cheating.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

And we don't win our superbowls if our players aren't on steroids or we don't mysteriously lose college game tape of guys like john stallworth, etc.

I'm really trying to avoid going down the ethical/moral slope of this argument.

Heck, our owner was into gambling and owned racetracks. Mixing gambling interests in football doesn't really form a solid base of putting our team on the high moral ground.

I'm assuming at the base of the argument that every team will try to win at all costs. Everyone cuts corners somewhere. I really don't see the Pats cheating as any worse than anything that anyone else tries to do.

So if you take that away, how do you make the case that Noll was better?

Do an google search and look into the spygate affair. It is absolutely staggering the extent the *'s went to. When Tom Brady said, "It's easy when you have all the answers," he was speaking of literally having the right calls because they knew exactly what the defense was going to do. Show me where Noll and the Steelers did anything like that.

Oh, and once again, steroids WEREN'T CHEATING back when the Steelers had their dynasty in the 70s, because they HADN'T YET BEEN BANNED by the NFL.

[bostonsteeler]

Bill Belichick wins SuperBowl #4 and ties Chuck Noll as one of 2 coaches with 4 Super Bowl victories.

Has Bill firmly established himself as the greatest coach of all time?

I suspect half the answers to the question will be - "but he cheated."

I say it's irrelevant. We cheated, they cheated, everyone in the NFL cheats on some level. Let's just look at what both men accomplished:

Not even close. Belichik and the Pats cheated hugely in the early years, and there's reason to believe they never stopped. Merely because the comish doesn't want to acknowledge it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

What's worse is their obnoxious thumbing of their noses at the system. They actually pride themselves on their ability to beat it.

Sorry, but this is a sorry franchise. Please dont compare Belichik to Noll. Apples and dog turds.

[flippy]

In an era with
Cowboys
Raiders
Dolphins
Oilers
Browns etc vs a division
With Jets, Dolphins Bills. Name 1 Qb capable of winning that division. Plus back then some of the stuff you are naming was not illegal back then. When it is and you still cheat is ummmm cheating.

I think you could claim that the Steelers, Colts, Ravens, etc. in today's era are just as formidable competition for the Pats as those teams were for us back in the 70s.

[Steelhere10]

Not even close. I still need for you to name a decent Qb that played in the AFC EAST the last 15 years. That's 6 games a year along with the title.

[flippy]

Do an google search and look into the spygate affair. It is absolutely staggering the extent the *'s went to. When Tom Brady said, "It's easy when you have all the answers," he was speaking of literally having the right calls because they knew exactly what the defense was going to do. Show me where Noll and the Steelers did anything like that.

Oh, and once again, steroids WEREN'T CHEATING back when the Steelers had their dynasty in the 70s, because they HADN'T YET BEEN BANNED by the NFL.

Since the dawn of sports, teams have been trying to steal other team's signals and plays. Sure, the lengths the Pats went to were beyond what anyone else had done before, but that doesn't mean everyone hasn't been trying to do it for all of time. Why do coaches cover their mouths when they call plays? Why do teams change their signals? etc. It's because they know the other team is trying to steal their signals if they can. It's upon every team to change and disguise their play calling/signals so other teams can't get an edge.

So of course, the Pats cheated, but it's no worse than what everyone else is trying to do to get an edge. They were just better at it based on what we know.

Speaking of steroids, who was that Steelers' team doctor that got in trouble for prescribing steroids only a few years ago? Let's be honest. James Harrison was one of the key cogs in recent Super Bowl runs for us. Do you really think he's never been on anything? Everything put in his body to be built like a mini tank are all clean and legit? I doubt it. Maybe there's a clean player here and there, but every team has someone bending the rules. To think otherwise is a bit naive imho. So I say everyone's cheating cancels everyone else out.

If you don't want to accept that we cheat too, I get it. But unless the NFL were to strike their records or ours or anyone else, our records and results are what they are. And by the numbers, our numbers don't compare favorably to theirs.

[flippy]

Not even close. I still need for you to name a decent Qb that played in the AFC EAST the last 15 years. That's 6 games a year along with the title.

I don't see how that's relevant. There's loads of divisions without quality QBs, but that doesn't make teams with a good QB in those divisions have the success of the Pats over the last 15 years.

[Steelhere10]

You think that the relationship that JH had with Goodell along with the legal troubles that he haven't been tested ??? I think you are fooling yourself.

[Steelhere10]

You name one , who had been with team what? Two years at the end of his career who had one good season with them lmao.