Defense Improving just in time

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

In all seriousness, what do people think is the main reason the defense has become so much better this year?

I have an idea it's because a) we have more cohesiveness and play more disciplined *because* Troy is not suited up, and of course b) our coverage is better without Ike (MCCain, etc.).

*If* that's right, it does make it harder to call for DL's retirement, doesn't it ... as the DC of a rapidly improving unit ...?

[bostonsteeler]

The D tightened up these past 3 games. Before that it was a sieve..
Concidentally, Ike and Pola have been out for much of the good run..

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Ike Shouldn't get a helmet unless a CB goes down. He doesn't have any value on gameday given where he is at. Gay, McCain, Blake are all ahead of him now. I haven't seen enough snaps from BW Webb but he could be ahead of him too. What made Taylor so good was his athletic ability for his size & he was good at run support. He wasn't a great technician...He didn't have great hands to be a playmaker...He didn't have great instincts. He just had great athletic ability. When that leaves...You are done. He can be a great leader & motivator on the sideline with Kiesel. In this new season of playoffs..It will be a big help for the youth.

Troy can not do what Allen does. I have been saying this for a long time...Troy is not good in anything but a LB drop in pass coverage. He lost his suddenness & his speed. He isn't fluid anymore...He is stiff. He is a stiff safety...More like a LB now in space. If Troy didn't have extraordinary instincts he would be retired. His instincts have kept his game a float but his athletic decline has overrun his instincts. The further you get away from the ball...The quicker age has an impact. Front 7 guys can lose a step or two & still play this game. Once the muscles & knees start to tear up...They too hit the cliff. I don't know if Troy should get a helmet when healthy but I imagine he will. I do know there are 2 safeties playing better than him right now. I would also bet if you sat in the bleachers...Tucked in that hair & put him on the field in a plain jersey with Golden & Shark...There may be 4 safeties playing better. The others play ST too.

Saying this about Ike & Troy is just the nature of the beast. Great All Time Steelers but others have came to sit at the table. Luv them both but Last Ride!

The defense is getting better because the young guys are starting to understand things better...That is for certain a part of the equation. The bigger reason this defense is getting better is the collective thing you can't teach. Speed. Athleticism. Endurance. YOUTH! Windows are closing about as fast as I have seen in a long time. False steps are being recovered by athleticism. These guys are young & hungry to stay on the field & to be honest...There is NO REASON to take them off. They are making the plays the vets have failed to make over the last couple years. The increased pressure on the QB over the last several games is obvious. If any Coach decides to gear down by putting a guy on the field because he is healthy & the name on the back of his jersey...It will hurt them & they won't have "next week" not to make the same mistake.

I was hard on Harrison before he left & would be the first to jump on him again because of his decline...But he is the only 30+ "vet starter" that has shown any reason to stay on the field if they can continue to limit his snap counts. JJ is limited in his pass rush. Moats showed he could do his job. I have no problem with Harrison starting but you have to rotate in JJ & Moats to keep his snap count down. Do that & you could have a Harrison that gives you some splash plays because he doesn't wear down. They have a good thing going right now in the LB rotation inside & out. You could see the "freshness" created by the rotation is having an impact deep into games. It will be an asset here in the playoffs because they could rotate in fresh bodies across the board for coverage packages.

[papillon]

Ike Shouldn't get a helmet unless a CB goes down. He doesn't have any value on gameday given where he is at. Gay, McCain, Blake are all ahead of him now. I haven't seen enough snaps from BW Webb but he could be ahead of him too. What made Taylor so good was his athletic ability for his size & he was good at run support. He wasn't a great technician...He didn't have great hands to be a playmaker...He didn't have great instincts. He just had great athletic ability. When that leaves...You are done. He can be a great leader & motivator on the sideline with Kiesel. In this new season of playoffs..It will be a big help for the youth.

Troy can not do what Allen does. I have been saying this for a long time...Troy is not good in anything but a LB drop in pass coverage. He lost his suddenness & his speed. He isn't fluid anymore...He is stiff. He is a stiff safety...More like a LB now in space. If Troy didn't have extraordinary instincts he would be retired. His instincts have kept his game a float but his athletic decline has overrun his instincts. The further you get away from the ball...The quicker age has an impact. Front 7 guys can lose a step or two & still play this game. Once the muscles & knees start to tear up...They too hit the cliff. I don't know if Troy should get a helmet when healthy but I imagine he will. I do know there are 2 safeties playing better than him right now. I would also bet if you sat in the bleachers...Tucked in that hair & put him on the field in a plain jersey with Golden & Shark...There may be 4 safeties playing better. The others play ST too.

Saying this about Ike & Troy is just the nature of the beast. Great All Time Steelers but others have came to sit at the table. Luv them both but Last Ride!

The defense is getting better because the young guys are starting to understand things better...That is for certain a part of the equation. The bigger reason this defense is getting better is the collective thing you can't teach. Speed. Athleticism. Endurance. YOUTH! Windows are closing about as fast as I have seen in a long time. False steps are being recovered by athleticism. These guys are young & hungry to stay on the field & to be honest...There is NO REASON to take them off. They are making the plays the vets have failed to make over the last couple years. The increased pressure on the QB over the last several games is obvious. If any Coach decides to gear down by putting a guy on the field because he is healthy & the name on the back of his jersey...It will hurt them & they won't have "next week" not to make the same mistake.

I was hard on Harrison before he left & would be the first to jump on him again because of his decline...But he is the only 30+ "vet starter" that has shown any reason to stay on the field if they can continue to limit his snap counts. JJ is limited in his pass rush. Moats showed he could do his job. I have no problem with Harrison starting but you have to rotate in JJ & Moats to keep his snap count down. Do that & you could have a Harrison that gives you some splash plays because he doesn't wear down. They have a good thing going right now in the LB rotation inside & out. You could see the "freshness" created by the rotation is having an impact deep into games. It will be an asset here in the playoffs because they could rotate in fresh bodies across the board for coverage packages.

Agreed, on everything here, except, I don't think Harrison took a break until late in the third (IIRC), so it seems he can still be a good to very good OLB in this defense. Certainly at his age he will wear down over a season, so limiting his snap count will be a good thing. He took on one of the best LTs in the NFL last night and did a good to great job, not much pressure, but he contained well and no one got outside of him, his instincts are still good he diagnosed a coulple screens and quick hitters rather quickly and helped keep yards to a minimum each time.

I do have a question for you, because you know way more about Xs and Os than I do. Last night it seemed when the Steelers rushed three and dropped 8, they were getting really good pressure on Dalton, but the problem was they didn't have the 4th guy to help keep him contained, the rush collapsed the pocket, but Dalton was able to escape once to his right and once to his left to make big plays (the shovel pass and a 19 yarder to Green, I think). You would think getting pressure with 3 would be a good thing, but it turned out not to be. What should have happened on these couple plays? Should the DEs be more concerned with staying in lanes? Should LBs have been more aware on the shovel?

Pappy

[raycafan]

I do have a question for you, because you know way more about Xs and Os than I do. Last night it seemed when the Steelers rushed three and dropped 8, they were getting really good pressure on Dalton, but the problem was they didn't have the 4th guy to help keep him contained, the rush collapsed the pocket, but Dalton was able to escape once to his right and once to his left to make big plays (the shovel pass and a 19 yarder to Green, I think). You would think getting pressure with 3 would be a good thing, but it turned out not to be. What should have happened on these couple plays? Should the DEs be more concerned with staying in lanes? Should LBs have been more aware on the shovel?

Pappy[/QUOTE]
Pappy, I think the 3 man rush when getting pressure is great. With that there could a Linebacker that could be a short shadow waiting for possible dump down or for the qb that can run. Can be used for a delayed rush, which of course is now a 4man. But there are some other things,
depending on the qb,

[NorthCoast]

The improved secondary is as much about the CBs "getting it" as it is about the DL improvement. The pass rush has made the last few QBs antsy in the pocket and it has led to hurried throws and mistakes. On the back end, the DBs have been in position to make plays off errant balls. Still concerned with Mitchell's play and think the Steelers should consider a safety at some point in the next draft. Even his splash play last night was late (and may draw a fine).

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Agreed, on everything here, except, I don't think Harrison took a break until late in the third (IIRC), so it seems he can still be a good to very good OLB in this defense. Certainly at his age he will wear down over a season, so limiting his snap count will be a good thing. He took on one of the best LTs in the NFL last night and did a good to great job, not much pressure, but he contained well and no one got outside of him, his instincts are still good he diagnosed a coulple screens and quick hitters rather quickly and helped keep yards to a minimum each time.

I do have a question for you, because you know way more about Xs and Os than I do. Last night it seemed when the Steelers rushed three and dropped 8, they were getting really good pressure on Dalton, but the problem was they didn't have the 4th guy to help keep him contained, the rush collapsed the pocket, but Dalton was able to escape once to his right and once to his left to make big plays (the shovel pass and a 19 yarder to Green, I think). You would think getting pressure with 3 would be a good thing, but it turned out not to be. What should have happened on these couple plays? Should the DEs be more concerned with staying in lanes? Should LBs have been more aware on the shovel?

Pappy

You are going to put that responsibility on the outside rushers to contain but when the QB steps up & rolls it is difficult. When you get a mobile guy like Dalton & you don't spy you can limit the outside guys up field rush but that will also take away from the pressure so you rarely do that. You may in a down & distance situation. Flacco is the same animal so you may see a little of the same next week.

You really don't envision those types to make many plays with their legs. You take the good with the bad & hope the rushers can make the play if you are sitting in coverage behind it. Most of the time you have an underneath zone LB to come up if he is flushed when you have 8 in coverage. You really wouldn't game plan the same against a Running QB versus a Dalton or Flacco. If you are playing R Wilson then you would limit the outside guys up field push & have them sit & squeeze. You know Dalton or Flacco are looking to get the ball out so you play the coverage & take your lumps if he does make a play with his legs or extends a play. Even though those types (Dalton or Flacco) are "capable"...Coaches will tell you...Not many good things happen when your QB has to cross the LOS. Just like they are telling BB...Get the ball out if you have to step up or roll out. There are some "stationary targets" that the Steelers could see down the road. What you saw yesterday on those couple occasions may have had different outcomes because they won't escape the pocket.

They rotate Harrison which is a good thing. It isn't a game by game basis either. Its a cumulative effect over games. He wasn't in a camp, came on late, & missed a couple games because of injury. So he should be fresher than usual in this playoff season which could only be a benefit. 4 game season left with the last game being a "let it all hang out" game. If he plays around 75% mark I don't see him wearing down. I will say I don't see a camp & a full season in him though so this may be his curtain call.

[papillon]

You are going to put that responsibility on the outside rushers to contain but when the QB steps up & rolls it is difficult. When you get a mobile guy like Dalton & you don't spy you can limit the outside guys up field rush but that will also take away from the pressure so you rarely do that. You may in a down & distance situation. Flacco is the same animal so you may see a little of the same next week.

You really don't envision those types to make many plays with their legs. You take the good with the bad & hope the rushers can make the play if you are sitting in coverage behind it. Most of the time you have an underneath zone LB to come up if he is flushed when you have 8 in coverage. You really wouldn't game plan the same against a Running QB versus a Dalton or Flacco. If you are playing R Wilson then you would limit the outside guys up field push & have them sit & squeeze. You know Dalton or Flacco are looking to get the ball out so you play the coverage & take your lumps if he does make a play with his legs or extends a play. Even though those types (Dalton or Flacco) are "capable"...Coaches will tell you...Not many good things happen when your QB has to cross the LOS. Just like they are telling BB...Get the ball out if you have to step up or roll out. There are some "stationary targets" that the Steelers could see down the road. What you saw yesterday on those couple occasions may have had different outcomes because they won't escape the pocket.

They rotate Harrison which is a good thing. It isn't a game by game basis either. Its a cumulative effect over games. He wasn't in a camp, came on late, & missed a couple games because of injury. So he should be fresher than usual in this playoff season which could only be a benefit. 4 game season left with the last game being a "let it all hang out" game. If he plays around 75% mark I don't see him wearing down. I will say I don't see a camp & a full season in him though so this may be his curtain call.

Thanks for the info on the three man rush. I was happy to see the pressure, but then the big plays started happening and I'm thinking, "this is what you dream of, rush 3, get pressure, defend with 8", but then the big plays started happening.

Yea, I tend to agree that a camp and 16 game schedule probably isn't happening for JH, but if he stays in shape and since injuries do happen in this league I still think he can plug the leak one more time just for old times sake if needed.

Steeler fans are going to miss that guy. My wife simply calls him "Boss", its funny as hell.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

The improved secondary is as much about the CBs "getting it" as it is about the DL improvement. The pass rush has made the last few QBs antsy in the pocket and it has led to hurried throws and mistakes. On the back end, the DBs have been in position to make plays off errant balls. Still concerned with Mitchell's play and think the Steelers should consider a safety at some point in the next draft. Even his splash play last night was late (and may draw a fine).

Its both... on a lot of these sacks the QB is holding onto the ball because the DB's are al over the WR's.

KC settled for FG's in the RZ because of coverage. Blake also made a great play on the ball in the EZ on a sure TD.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Thanks for the info on the three man rush. I was happy to see the pressure, but then the big plays started happening and I'm thinking, "this is what you dream of, rush 3, get pressure, defend with 8", but then the big plays started happening.

Yea, I tend to agree that a camp and 16 game schedule probably isn't happening for JH, but if he stays in shape and since injuries do happen in this league I still think he can plug the leak one more time just for old times sake if needed.

Steeler fans are going to miss that guy. My wife simply calls him "Boss", its funny as hell.

Pappy

I'll be honest...I was surprised. I didn't think he had that many quality snaps left in him. If he can last the year playing like he is it will be GREAT! I'll miss him too like every Steeler Great that has to move on. Exciting thing is we get to watch new Steeler Greats Develop before our eyes. The Steelers have several rising stars on this roster right now!

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I wonder if (assuming he stays healthy for our run) they would give JH a pass on camp in some way, and take it easy on him during the regular season.

Tim Duncan, 37 years old - last year the Spurs coach had him play only about 50-60% of the total minutes in the regular season, and he also kept his other "old players" fresh by limiting their time as well. It worked great, as their legs were "young" for the post-season run ... a very successful one as it turned out.

No reason this can't be adapted in some fashion to JH 2015!

[NorthCoast]

Its both... on a lot of these sacks the QB is holding onto the ball because the DB's are al over the WR's.

KC settled for FG's in the RZ because of coverage. Blake also made a great play on the ball in the EZ on a sure TD.

This is true. And there were at least a few passes where the WRs were wide open with DBs playing off but Dalton's passes were well off the mark. So yes, it is both and it's great to see it at work!

[feltdizz]

This is true. And there were at least a few passes where the WRs were wide open with DBs playing off but Dalton's passes were well off the mark. So yes, it is both and it's great to see it at work!

We were getting presure with 3 guys... that is amazing.

Cam Heyward is a monster and Tuitt looks like he is about to follow in his footsteps

[hawaiiansteel]

Alex Kozora retweeted
Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot -

Will Allen is SO smart and knows the defense. That's why he is playing ahead of Shamarko still #Steelers

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[papillon]

I wonder if (assuming he stays healthy for our run) they would give JH a pass on camp in some way, and take it easy on him during the regular season.

Tim Duncan, 37 years old - last year the Spurs coach had him play only about 50-60% of the total minutes in the regular season, and he also kept his other "old players" fresh by limiting their time as well. It worked great, as their legs were "young" for the post-season run ... a very successful one as it turned out.

No reason this can't be adapted in some fashion to JH 2015!

The problem is you have to give him a helmet and a spot on the 53 man roster, even if you let him skip camp, you still have to cut someone to keep him and I'm not sure that is prudent. I would love one more year from James, he's a man's man football player and probably my favorite Steeler of all time, but I don't know if you give him a spot on the 53 next year. I think keeping him on speed dial in case of injury is the best that we, as fans, can hope for and I don't wish injury on anyone trying to make a living in the NFL.

Pappy