Tomlin comments inspire confidence in a turnaround.

[Vader]

Out of all of those veteran players, only a handful were still on the team after the 1997 season...that's very similar to what happened to Tomlin's veteran leadership.

Not quite true. Tomlin kept Cowher's players around a lot longer. Also almost none of the players Cowher took from Noll had done anything. Most never sniff a pro-bowl under Noll. Ilkin played one year with Cowher. Hoge played 2 years under Cowher and he wasn't that good. John Jackson never played in a pro-bowl. Nickerson played one year with Cowher. Justin Strzelczyk never played a snap under Noll. Thomas Everett never played for Cowher. Ernie Mills was a nobody. Evans only played 2 years with Cowher. Aaron Jones was a nobody and only played one year with Cowher. But that's what you deal with when you are dealing with perceptions rather than reality. Cowher had to replace almost the entire defense in 3 years. Tomlin has more Cowher players on his team NOW than Cowher had of Noll's just a few years in.

[feltdizz]

Not quite true. Tomlin kept Cowher's players around a lot longer. Also almost none of the players Cowher took from Noll had done anything. Most never sniff a pro-bowl under Noll. Ilkin played one year with Cowher. Hoge played 2 years under Cowher and he wasn't that good. John Jackson never played in a pro-bowl. Nickerson played one year with Cowher. Justin Strzelczyk never played a snap under Noll. Thomas Everett never played for Cowher. Ernie Mills was a nobody. Evans only played 2 years with Cowher. Aaron Jones was a nobody and only played one year with Cowher. But that's what you deal with when you are dealing with perceptions rather than reality. Cowher had to replace almost the entire defense in 3 years. Tomlin has more Cowher players on his team NOW than Cowher had of Noll's just a few years in.

hmm... whoever we hired would have done the same thing Tomlin did with those vets.

It's turnover time now so we will see if Tomlin can right the ship with his players. Right now it isn't looking so good but time will tell.

[WindyCitySteel]

Ummmm, you sir are wrong.
BC INHERITED the 3/4 as Noll had already installed it.

His own offensive philosophy? What?
How did he change from what ALWAYS HAD BEEN "Steeler football".

That team had LOADS of defensive talent at the time too.

He brought in his own coordinators and assistants and created Blitzburgh. On offense, he brought in Erhardt and built around Barry Foster and play action, but Bubby Brister winging the ball to Eric Green and Louis Lipps.

He did have talent, but he also brought in guys like Searcy, Kirkland, and Steed and played them early.

[WindyCitySteel]

Sometimes, a team looks like it is lacking talent until it is well coached. No one would say Cowher inherented a lot of talent at the time, but he took over a team with:

- Barry Foster
- Greg Lloyd
- Rod Woodson
- Lake
- Eric Green
- Hardy Nickerson
- Tom Everrett
- O'Donnell
- Ernie Mills
- Warren Williams
- Donald Evans
- Aaron Jones
- Hoge
- Lipps
- Dirt Dawson
- Gary Anderson
- Ilkin
- John Jackson
- Justin Strzelczyk

After Noll's last season, you'd say the team wasn't very talented, but looking back, it had a good deal of good players.

A lot of good players, but you're stuffing the ballot box with "guys" like Evans, Jones, Williams, O'D, Mills, and the place kicker.

[Shawn]

He brought in his own coordinators and assistants and created Blitzburgh. On offense, he brought in Erhardt and built around Barry Foster and play action, but Bubby Brister winging the ball to Eric Green and Louis Lipps.

He did have talent, but he also brought in guys like Searcy, Kirkland, and Steed and played them early.

I'm truly hoping you didn't say talent and Bubby Brister in the same sentence.

[hawaiiansteel]

Not quite true. Tomlin kept Cowher's players around a lot longer.

that's because Tomlin knew he could only win with Cowher's players...

[Vader]

hmm... whoever we hired would have done the same thing Tomlin did with those vets.

It's turnover time now so we will see if Tomlin can right the ship with his players. Right now it isn't looking so good but time will tell.

Nothing wrong with keeping talent. The problem is that he's had going on 8 years to replace the talent and has failed. In 8 drafts he has 1 WR, 1 RB and 2 OL (if DeCastro can play better), 1 LB (who is out of position) and almost nothing anywhere else. He was a DB coach but can't find one good DB in 8 years. As Cowher's players leave he gets worse. Hell, he still has Ben, Miller, Ike, Harrison, and Keisel from Cowher. And they are all close to the best players at their positions 8 years after Cowher has left. That's just bad.

[Slapstick]

Not quite true. Tomlin kept Cowher's players around a lot longer. Also almost none of the players Cowher took from Noll had done anything. Most never sniff a pro-bowl under Noll. Ilkin played one year with Cowher. Hoge played 2 years under Cowher and he wasn't that good. John Jackson never played in a pro-bowl. Nickerson played one year with Cowher. Justin Strzelczyk never played a snap under Noll. Thomas Everett never played for Cowher. Ernie Mills was a nobody. Evans only played 2 years with Cowher. Aaron Jones was a nobody and only played one year with Cowher. But that's what you deal with when you are dealing with perceptions rather than reality. Cowher had to replace almost the entire defense in 3 years. Tomlin has more Cowher players on his team NOW than Cowher had of Noll's just a few years in.

No, it's true. Cowher had solid veteran leadership from Woodson, Lake, Lloyd, O'Donnell, Dawson, etc. Of the guys I mentioned, all but Dawson were gone prior to the three year downturn or just after the first down year.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I wonder if Haley does go if Tomlin can insert the guy he wanted as his OC?

Wasn't it the RB's coach?

Kirby Wilson is the RB coach for the Minnesota Vikings now, not the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[bostonsteeler]

hmm... whoever we hired would have done the same thing Tomlin did with those vets.

It's turnover time now so we will see if Tomlin can right the ship with his players. Right now it isn't looking so good but time will tell.

I would agree, only I don't think the talent evaluation during the draft has been great, so the players generally aren't panning out to the same level as they did under Cowher.
Part of this may be about the specific Rooney running the show in the two eras.

[feltdizz]

I would agree, only I don't think the talent evaluation during the draft has been great, so the players generally aren't panning out to the same level as they did under Cowher.
Part of this may be about the specific Rooney running the show in the two eras.

I agree, we haven't hit on as many draft picks under Tomlin.

[steelsnis]

I agree, we haven't hit on as many draft picks under Tomlin.

The Cowher draft history isn't as great as everyone thinks. There are a ton of huge misses in that era that people gloss over. Jamain Stephens and Steven Conley as 1st and 2nd rd picks in the same draft? Will Blackwell and Paul Wiggins in the 2nd and 3rd? Jeremy Staat and Chris Conrad (2nd, 3rd) Scott Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Ricardo Colclough all in the 2nd round?

My point isn't to diminish Cowher, but people look back with such fondness that they tend to gloss over the mistakes. Tomlin's era has draft mistakes too, but people act like every Cowher draft was like 1974 while every Tomlin draft is a disaster.

[feltdizz]

Nothing wrong with keeping talent. The problem is that he's had going on 8 years to replace the talent and has failed. In 8 drafts he has 1 WR, 1 RB and 2 OL (if DeCastro can play better), 1 LB (who is out of position) and almost nothing anywhere else. He was a DB coach but can't find one good DB in 8 years. As Cowher's players leave he gets worse. Hell, he still has Ben, Miller, Ike, Harrison, and Keisel from Cowher. And they are all close to the best players at their positions 8 years after Cowher has left. That's just bad.

Keeping talent is the problem. The more I think about the more I realize it isn't drafting talent, its retaining talent.

Tomlin era has

WR: Wallace, Sanders, Brown, Wheaton ( I think he will be a solid wr)

OL: Pouncey, DD, Urbik, Beachum

RB: Mendenhall, Bell


DL: Heyward

LB:Woodley, Timmons, new crop is too young to grade but they look promising

DB: Gay, Lewis and hopefully Shark, Allen (unfortunately but time will tell)

We have to remember Cowher never had a franchise QB salary to deal with, and under Tomlin we had 2 SB appearances in 4 years which put us at the end of the first round.

Here is a great article on Tomlin era picks:

[URL]http://thesteelersnat.blogspot.com/2014/02/analyzing-drafts-of-mike-tomlin-era.html[/URL]

[Slapstick]

Now that was interesting...

[feltdizz]

The Cowher draft history isn't as great as everyone thinks. There are a ton of huge misses in that era that people gloss over. Jamain Stephens and Steven Conley as 1st and 2nd rd picks in the same draft? Will Blackwell and Paul Wiggins in the 2nd and 3rd? Jeremy Staat and Chris Conrad (2nd, 3rd) Scott Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Ricardo Colclough all in the 2nd round?

My point isn't to diminish Cowher, but people look back with such fondness that they tend to gloss over the mistakes. Tomlin's era has draft mistakes too, but people act like every Cowher draft was like 1974 while every Tomlin draft is a disaster.

Yeah... when Vader listed off who we have left on the team I looked at all of Tomlins draft picks and came across that link. Made me realize it wasn't who we picked as much as it was who we were able to retain.