"Players coach"

[feltdizz]

Ah, I see...

So, you didn't like his honesty...

I didn't think it was petty or weak...he was asked about it and answered honestly...

For someone who spoke out about standing in judgement of another human being, you seem to have changed your tune in this instance...

yep, spot on.

[Shawn]

Ah, I see...

So, you didn't like his honesty...

I didn't think it was petty or weak...he was asked about it and answered honestly...

For someone who spoke out about standing in judgement of another human being, you seem to have changed your tune in this instance...

Nice tactic. Don't address the solid rebuttal of your argument. But, I'll play...no I didn't like the content of his honesty. I think I have made that very clear. To me it appears weak, whiny, and petty. I believe there is a better venue for him to vent if he feels frustrated. If there were some racial issues, he just magnified them. He showed he can be shook by a simple line of questioning. He lied when he said it didn't bother him. Right or wrong, I think a little less of the man after he said it. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours.

[Captain Lemming]

Spin it however you like, this is what Tomlin actually said.

Dude you miss the point.
WE KNOW that is what he said. I never said he didn't.
There is no spin.

Back to my point. Tomlin actually does not act like a players coach. THAT is why he said what he said.

Dick Vermeil....players coach....old white dude.
But Vermiel hugs his players, cries with them, loves them like family.
Tomlin ain't saying that those types are NOT viewed as players coaches.
He is not saying it is wrong to call a black coach a players coach.

What makes HIM a players coach?
He does not ACT like one. THATS the point

Shawn, you said "players like to play for him".
Players like to play for a winner.
They give BB a discount to play for him.
I guaranty you the more he loses the less players are going to want to play for Tomlin.

Shawn you are a reasonable guy, I really am surprised you missed my point. Let me try again, I'm sure I can reach you.

Im a a black guy from Hawaii.....EVERYBODY thinks I love Obama.
That is not racist, but do you honestly think for one minute it has nothing to do with my race?

Heck, other BLACK PEOPLE make that same assumption.

NOTHING I have ever said or done would lead someone to that conclusion.
I never voted for the man, or anybody and could care less.

Tomlin is LESS CHUMMY, not putting his arms around players, never expressing much of any emotion about players. Heck players don't express that much emotion for him. He is cold and impersonal even in how he talks about them.

Think about it, honestly tell me I'm wrong.
If he LOOKED Like Dick Vermeil, how often is Tomlin called a "players coach".

[Slapstick]

Nice tactic. Don't address the solid rebuttal of your argument. But, I'll play...no I didn't like the content of his honesty. I think I have made that very clear. To me it appears weak, whiny, and petty. I believe there is a better venue for him to vent if he feels frustrated. If there were some racial issues, he just magnified them. He showed he can be shook by a simple line of questioning. He lied when he said it didn't bother him. Right or wrong, I think a little less of the man after he said it. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours.

Oh, if there had been a solid rebuttal, I would have addressed it...

At any rate, you are correct, we are entitled to our own opinions...

[Captain Lemming]

Nice tactic. Don't address the solid rebuttal of your argument. But, I'll play...no I didn't like the content of his honesty. I think I have made that very clear. To me it appears weak, whiny, and petty. I believe there is a better venue for him to vent if he feels frustrated. If there were some racial issues, he just magnified them. He showed he can be shook by a simple line of questioning. He lied when he said it didn't bother him. Right or wrong, I think a little less of the man after he said it. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours.

I agree it served no good purpose. But I think this may have been a long time coming. But once race comes up people stop hearing each other. So it was bound to be misunderstood so he should not have gone there.

[Slapstick]

I agree it served no good purpose. But I think this may have been a long time coming. But once race comes up people stop hearing each other. So it was bound to be misunderstood so he should not have gone there.

Yep. As I mentioned before, as soon as a black man mentions anything about race, he is immediately subjected to being invalidated and/or discredited...

[Captain Lemming]

Yep. As I mentioned before, as soon as a black man mentions anything about race, he is immediately subjected to being invalidated and/or discredited...

Sadly it often works both ways. It is difficult for people to see a perspective they have not experienced.

[Shawn]

Yep. As I mentioned before, as soon as a black man mentions anything about race, he is immediately subjected to being invalidated and/or discredited...

Personally, I have no issues with a black man mentioning race issues if it has clear merit. If a white man mentions anything about race he is a bigot. That is the world we live in.

[Chadman]

The more the argument goes on, the less I think it matters.

Who cares?

For mine, Tomlin lost his cool for a short while. He's under pressure. So be it. We can't all be Ice all the time.

Chalk it up as the pressure starting to show a bit. You don't think, for 1 second, that Tomlin KNOWS that his race will ALWAYS be an issue, simply because of the Rooney Rule & being the coach of the Steelers?

I'm betting he tries everything possible to be as 'grey' in his personality as he can be. I agree with Lemming, I think he goes out of his way to appear to 'not be' a players coach. He is rather impersonal. It's always "men" this, and "next man up" that. When was the last time he said "I love these guys like brothers"?

Being called a 'players coach' is a PERCEPTION often brought about by the media. Outside of a poll saying he's the 2nd most popular coach for players wanting to play for (which could as easily be explained as players like success), and 1 selfie with James Harrison, where is the overiding evidence that Tomlin is buddy-buddy with the players?

Why do we assume he is a 'players coach'?

Ask yourself that 1 question.

[Captain Lemming]

Personally, I have no issues with a black man mentioning race issues if it has clear merit. If a white man mentions anything about race he is a bigot. That is the world we live in.

However, ones personal experience and resulting world view can color ones definition of "merit". We can easily be dismissive of a POV that we have never experienced.

[Shawn]

This is my last post on the subject...and after you can have fun with it. I can see things from other peoples POV...it's called empathy. And even if I haven't walked in a black man's shoes per se, I have been on the other side of bigotry. I know what it's like to feel prejudice, ignorance, judgment, and even told because of "what I am" I am not welcome in their place of employment. I know what it's like to face so much bigotry they draw up laws and special government organizations to protect your rights. It's ok for "my kind" to be a punch line...there is no sympathy. It's not hard for me to feel empathy, compassion and understanding for another race, sexual orientation, religious group or what not. How much sympathy would you have for me if I told you because of my history with alcoholism that I was told I wasn't fit (though I was years sober) to practice in their place of employment? Or that I have been gossiped about, mistrusted, rejected, harassed etc even though I never hurt a patient...never have even had a valid complaint from a patient nearly 10 years of practice. You probably wouldn't have much sympathy for me...because of public ignorance alcoholism is a choice in their minds. It's not a progressive and fatal disease process. They can't possibly understand unless they are one of us. Do you know how often I complain about it? This is the first time I have mentioned it. I don't whine about it or cry about it. It's part of me...I get knocked down or face ignorance I move on. Who is the apologist for the recovering alcoholic who faces ignorant comments and prejudice? I don't see too many Slappys looking to march for our rights. I don't even try to correct the ignorance anymore. I work hard, go to meetings, try to be a good father and husband...and I just live. And Slappy is right...I'm not a big fan of judging anyone...but this one really got my goat. I know I am the only inconsistent hypocrite in the room and all...but it really did get under my skin. Dizz will assume it got my goat because "a white man wants the black man to stay quiet". That's not even close to being it. I suppose it's because Tomlin has a good life, with a good job, makes millions of dollars a year, has his health and the health of his family. Many people don't have those things, experience REAL prejudice and don't complain...especially about something that may or may not meant what he thought it meant. So there it is...all I will say on the subject.

[Chadman]

I think we all take critisism on here a little too personally. We make it a little too personal.

I can tell you from experience that Shawn is a compassionate, empathic man. I can honestly tell you that he does try his best to see a point of view other than his own.

Just because his point of view is different from others, I don't think gives the opportunity for some others to belittle his opinion.

To be fair, on this one, I'm not sure I agree with you Shawn- but I'm not about to call you out on it.

I like Lemming's point. I think it's well reasoned.

Maybe if we all stopped trying to out-do each other for a little while on the smart-ass comments....


But then, I guess we are just coming off a loss to TB...

[Shawn]

I think we all take critisism on here a little too personally. We make it a little too personal.

I can tell you from experience that Shawn is a compassionate, empathic man. I can honestly tell you that he does try his best to see a point of view other than his own.

Just because his point of view is different from others, I don't think gives the opportunity for some others to belittle his opinion.

To be fair, on this one, I'm not sure I agree with you Shawn- but I'm not about to call you out on it.

I like Lemming's point. I think it's well reasoned.

Maybe if we all stopped trying to out-do each other for a little while on the smart-ass comments....


But then, I guess we are just coming off a loss to TB...

I appreciate that Chad...and you know I have the highest regard for you. My friends and I often disagree on different topics...actually did this morning about domestic abuse where women beat men. I'm very ok with you disagreeing with me. I enjoy tough subjects. With that said, racism, or prejudice of any kind is a touchy subject for many. I think the frustration with the Tampa Bay game and the Tomlin comments brought up some brewing resentments on both sides of the fence. When a black man sees the news in Ferguson he feels certain things...a white man might feel something different. But, I know there has been much brewing in the media in general to stir up old feelings for many. It can leak out into forums such as these.

[Slapstick]

This is my last post on the subject...and after you can have fun with it. I can see things from other peoples POV...it's called empathy. And even if I haven't walked in a black man's shoes per se, I have been on the other side of bigotry. I know what it's like to feel prejudice, ignorance, judgment, and even told because of "what I am" I am not welcome in their place of employment. I know what it's like to face so much bigotry they draw up laws and special government organizations to protect your rights. It's ok for "my kind" to be a punch line...there is no sympathy. It's not hard for me to feel empathy, compassion and understanding for another race, sexual orientation, religious group or what not. How much sympathy would you have for me if I told you because of my history with alcoholism that I was told I wasn't fit (though I was years sober) to practice in their place of employment? Or that I have been gossiped about, mistrusted, rejected, harassed etc even though I never hurt a patient...never have even had a valid complaint from a patient nearly 10 years of practice. You probably wouldn't have much sympathy for me...because of public ignorance alcoholism is a choice in their minds. It's not a progressive and fatal disease process. They can't possibly understand unless they are one of us. Do you know how often I complain about it? This is the first time I have mentioned it. I don't whine about it or cry about it. It's part of me...I get knocked down or face ignorance I move on. Who is the apologist for the recovering alcoholic who faces ignorant comments and prejudice? I don't see too many Slappys looking to march for our rights. I don't even try to correct the ignorance anymore. I work hard, go to meetings, try to be a good father and husband...and I just live. And Slappy is right...I'm not a big fan of judging anyone...but this one really got my goat. I know I am the only inconsistent hypocrite in the room and all...but it really did get under my skin. Dizz will assume it got my goat because "a white man wants the black man to stay quiet". That's not even close to being it. I suppose it's because Tomlin has a good life, with a good job, makes millions of dollars a year, has his health and the health of his family. Many people don't have those things, experience REAL prejudice and don't complain...especially about something that may or may not meant what he thought it meant. So there it is...all I will say on the subject.

I think that we also tend to fill in the gaps we perceive in others' statements with our own sentiments, or at least what we think the other party is feeling...we're almost all of us guilty....

On this board, others have accused me of thinking I'm "better" or "above" other posters...and, if you can find a post where I actually said something like that without an accompanying smiley face, I will sincerely and unreservedly apologize....

But, I don't think you would find that if you looked...

People get hypersensitive and hypercritical on here after a particularly bad loss...also, the general tone of the board trends to the negative side after a non-playoff season....apparently, this is all cumulative...

[feltdizz]

This is my last post on the subject...and after you can have fun with it. I can see things from other peoples POV...it's called empathy. And even if I haven't walked in a black man's shoes per se, I have been on the other side of bigotry. I know what it's like to feel prejudice, ignorance, judgment, and even told because of "what I am" I am not welcome in their place of employment. I know what it's like to face so much bigotry they draw up laws and special government organizations to protect your rights. It's ok for "my kind" to be a punch line...there is no sympathy. It's not hard for me to feel empathy, compassion and understanding for another race, sexual orientation, religious group or what not. How much sympathy would you have for me if I told you because of my history with alcoholism that I was told I wasn't fit (though I was years sober) to practice in their place of employment? Or that I have been gossiped about, mistrusted, rejected, harassed etc even though I never hurt a patient...never have even had a valid complaint from a patient nearly 10 years of practice. You probably wouldn't have much sympathy for me...because of public ignorance alcoholism is a choice in their minds. It's not a progressive and fatal disease process. They can't possibly understand unless they are one of us. Do you know how often I complain about it? This is the first time I have mentioned it. I don't whine about it or cry about it. It's part of me...I get knocked down or face ignorance I move on. Who is the apologist for the recovering alcoholic who faces ignorant comments and prejudice? I don't see too many Slappys looking to march for our rights. I don't even try to correct the ignorance anymore. I work hard, go to meetings, try to be a good father and husband...and I just live. And Slappy is right...I'm not a big fan of judging anyone...but this one really got my goat. I know I am the only inconsistent hypocrite in the room and all...but it really did get under my skin. Dizz will assume it got my goat because "a white man wants the black man to stay quiet". That's not even close to being it. I suppose it's because Tomlin has a good life, with a good job, makes millions of dollars a year, has his health and the health of his family. Many people don't have those things, experience REAL prejudice and don't complain...especially about something that may or may not meant what he thought it meant. So there it is...all I will say on the subject.

My father chose the bottle over me for 20 or so years... I watched countless families get torn apart after the Steel Mill's closed because their fathers chose the bottle instead of their families. It's a tough situation and you are correct. No one is going to march for alcoholism because people see it as a choice. My father was the butt of jokes at every family function. When I got older I found out why my dad chose the bottle and I'm no longer mad at him for it. However, at the time I couldn't march for him or vouch for him. I loved him, but he loved that bottle more than he loved me.

He is 20+ years sober and it's been great. He woke up one day and said enough is enough. Our relationship has been great ever since. But I can't march for alcoholics... I don't think their rights have been violated.

As far as Tomlin is concerned. Sure, he has a great job and people envy him for it but that doesn't mean anyone can say something to him. He is still a man with feelings and sometimes hearing "stop complaining, the president is black" really gets under a black man's skin.

I think the main reason people get so frustrated is because the person saying "stop complaining" is laying out a list of complaints at the same time. LOL...