Should all the coaches still be fired asap?

[Shawn]

I'm in this camp. One thing people need to undersrand is Carolina's offense isn't explosive. They rely on the D getting TO's and working with short fields.

Tampa sucks on O and Jax isn't much better... hopefully the D gains some confidence and momentum.

I just have a hard time being a believer after one really nice defensive outing. But, I hope you are right that they regain their confidence over the next couple soft games.

[Slapstick]

I'm in this camp. One thing people need to undersrand is Carolina's offense isn't explosive. They rely on the D getting TO's and working with short fields.

That is a terrible offensive strategy...

[feltdizz]

That is a terrible offensive strategy...

yep.. and this is why fans in Carolina are ANGRY with the OC.

10 rushes vs a D that was ranked 31st against the run?
Getting rid of all 3 starting WR's (Steve Smith, LaFelle and Ted Ginn) after a 12-4 season?
No move to upgrade the tackle positions, relying on 2 undrafted OT's?

A lot of fans HATE the OC Shula... he refuses the run the ball and they have a ton of money invested in the RB position.

[JoshBroski]

Be more specific. What is the benchmark to judge LeBeau did a good job this season? Where does the defense need to be? Top 15 scoring? top 10? the "eye test"? If you are the HC, what is your metric to judge DL's performance?

Lol common sense. I didn't know you had to have a Ph.D to add simple math.

[Captain Lemming]

BTW: were you trying to be humorous when you said DL was making "good meals out of dirt" in the secondary?

DL has coached the number one pass defense MANY TIMES with AVERAGE at best overall talent at the corners.
People scream about the "cushion" yet we are doing magic considering the kinds of players he did it with.

This yet we've gone from dirt to feces.
At some point you have to have reasonable expectations.

Shawn, we e had our worst run offense in my recall (I'm 50) under Haley.

Did that mean he can't coach a successful run game? No he did it in KC.
But it was bound to struggle with the total lack of talent we had.
I knew he COULD do it because he DID DO IT at KC.

Now with the pieces in place we look to have an OUTSTANDING run game.

Would it have been fair to judge Haley based on run game struggles when he was starting backup type players?
Not only would that have been wrong, it is short sighted.
Personnel not coach caused those struggles.

Same deal with DL

[Captain Lemming]

Come on CL, you know Troy didn't have a Pro Bowl quality year last season. Name recognition and fan votes don't make a good safety. If it's a Colbert issue then lets rid ourselves of him. But, I have a sneaky suspicion that LeBeau's opinion on talent is heavily weighed in him and Tomlin's decisions. And I don't believe Colbert develops said talent.

DL develops talent alright.
How else do you get a number one pass defense without ANY top college corners. None.
And some "talent", the best prospect is now wearing a different shade of black and gold.

[RuthlessBurgher]

without ANY top college corners. None.

Interesting point. Ike went to Louisiana-Lafayette (or Swaggin U., I suppose), Cortez went to the Citadel, and Will Gay attended the closest thing to a top college at Louisville.

[NorthCoast]

I think it will be obvious. The eye test...are we seeing the trend going up. Is this D putting the team in positions to win? I could care less about the stats. Not saying they are completely unimportant but I won't be checking them.

What "trend going up" are you referring to? Problem is there are a lot of different eyes making this call. Even the 'eyes' on this board can't agree on what they are seeing.

In the real world, people are paid for specific performance. Sales/year, pieces/hour, etc. Sorry if 'stats' bother you so much, but it is how most of the world works. Player contracts have them, why would you not have them in a HC, OC or DC contract.

[Shawn]

DL develops talent alright.
How else do you get a number one pass defense without ANY top college corners. None.
And some "talent", the best prospect is now wearing a different shade of black and gold.

And Noll coached 4 teams to SB wins. Should we have kept him around until he was 110? First, you and I know stats lie but I wonder who were the DBs on this "#1 pass D". I do remember a time when we had Townsend, Ike, Troy and I believe Clark. That's not dirt...that's two pro bowlers and a guy who should have been a pro bowler coupled with one of the most underrated Steeler DBs of all time. That's some serious talent. And even with those kinds of guys we rarely shut down a top passer like Seattle did in the last SB.

[Shawn]

What "trend going up" are you referring to? Problem is there are a lot of different eyes making this call. Even the 'eyes' on this board can't agree on what they are seeing.

In the real world, people are paid for specific performance. Sales/year, pieces/hour, etc. Sorry if 'stats' bother you so much, but it is how most of the world works. Player contracts have them, why would you not have them in a HC, OC or DC contract.

Growth. Are we seeing the D get better? If I see growth I am happy. Stats work for those who don't want to do much thinking. I have issues like this at work...where people get worked up about a stat within the company structure because they don't want to place it within a context. Nothing wrong with stats but they need to be interpreted correctly without dismissing them or crowning them all encompassing truth. We have much of that here. Hey the Steelers had the number one D! Yet, they rarely got a game changing turnover, or had problems stopping people on third down. If you are only looking at total yards...that is a poor indicator of D or O health. If you or anyone else do not understand that I don't know what else to say.

[JoshBroski]

Troy is a future HOFer and paired with Clark in their prime, they were the best at preventing the big play. Having the best pass rush for years helped too.

[hawaiiansteel]

YES, FIRE all the coaches immediately!