The Steelers way.. One thing I don't understand

[skyhawk]

See, I don't get this narrative.

Since 2010, the Steelers have drafted and developed the following players:

Antonio Brown, Jason Worilds, Maurkice Pouncey, Cortez Allen, Marcus Gilbert, Cam Heyward David Decastro, Sean Spence, Kelvin Beachum, Jarvis Jones, Leveon Bell, Markus Wheaton, Shamarko Thomas. Not to mention Stephon Tuitt, Ryan Shazier, Dri Archer and the rest of this year's class. And this doesn't even account for those that were drafted but have left via free agency.

All of these guys are or are projecting to be major factors for the Steelers moving forward.

Those players have done absolutely nothing to date, except mainly back to back 8-8 seasons. Is THAT development? I am talking about results. Not pipe dreams and "the standard".

[Ghost]

See, I don't get this narrative.

Since 2010, the Steelers have drafted and developed the following players:

Antonio Brown, Jason Worilds, Maurkice Pouncey, Cortez Allen, Marcus Gilbert, Cam Heyward David Decastro, Sean Spence, Kelvin Beachum, Jarvis Jones, Leveon Bell, Markus Wheaton, Shamarko Thomas. Not to mention Stephon Tuitt, Ryan Shazier, Dri Archer and the rest of this year's class. And this doesn't even account for those that were drafted but have left via free agency.

All of these guys are or are projecting to be major factors for the Steelers moving forward.

2008 set them back a couple of years it was such a horrid draft. 2009 was a failure with the 1st and 2nd picks. 2010 was finally good. 2011- the 2nd and 3rd picks were terrible. 2012 - another 2nd round waste. 2013 - should be good if Jones develops and Bell looks like a tremendous choice. Takes a couple of years to see the fruits of a class. Missing on 1s and 2s 4 out of 6 years hurts.

[BURGH86STEEL]

2008 set them back a couple of years it was such a horrid draft. 2009 was a failure with the 1st and 2nd picks. 2010 was finally good. 2011- the 2nd and 3rd picks were terrible. 2012 - another 2nd round waste. 2013 - should be good if Jones develops and Bell looks like a tremendous choice. Takes a couple of years to see the fruits of a class. Missing on 1s and 2s 4 out of 6 years hurts.

I don't believe that one or two drafts sets a team back a couple of years. For different reasons most of a team's draft picks will be gone after 5 years. Teams are basically recycling different players on the roster every 4 or 5 years.

Excluding 2013 and 2014, the team basically missed on 1 first round pick (Hood) and one 2nd round pick (Sweed) since 2007. The jury still out on Adams.

[Oviedo]

Seriously... some of the losses were ugly but we still grinded out 8 wins while shedding a ton of vets and losing players like Keenan Lewis and Mike Wallace.

I think we are ready to make a eu the next few years once this D gets it together.

The concern is will it take a few years to get "just the right players" on defense and by that time we will have a QB who can't do it on offense anymore which seems to be where the NFL is going

[steelsnis]

Those players have done absolutely nothing to date, except mainly back to back 8-8 seasons. Is THAT development? I am talking about results. Not pipe dreams and "the standard".

C'mon skyhawk, you know that a lot of factors go into winning games. So many things have to fall into place and there is a TON of luck involved to get to the Super Bowl. Winning is the MAIN objective, but that's different than what you said.

You can't just say, well, they've been 8-8 for two years, so they must have drafted wrong or not developed these guys! There are plenty of good, young players on this team. It takes time to rebuild. I know every Steelers fan wants to be 12-4 every year and go deep into the playoffs but that's just not realistic.

Here are the Seahawks season records since 2005 when they lost to Pttsburgh in the Super Bowl:

13-3
9-7
10-6
4-12
5-11
7-9
7-9
11-5
13-3

During that same period, the Steelers have been back to two additional Super Bowls! It's inevitable to go through a "down period" before you build your team back up again. That's what these last two 8-8 seasons have been. Imagine if Tomlin went 4-12, 5-11, 7-9, 7-9 ???? Haha this place would implode! Sure there will be growing pains with a young defense, but that's what happens. The Steelers are getting younger and faster, and (hopefully) better as they move forward.

[BURGH86STEEL]

The concern is will it take a few years to get "just the right players" on defense and by that time we will have a QB who can't do it on offense anymore which seems to be where the NFL is going

Replacing good/great players like the Steelers had just doesn't happen over night.

[phillyesq]

2008 set them back a couple of years it was such a horrid draft. 2009 was a failure with the 1st and 2nd picks. 2010 was finally good. 2011- the 2nd and 3rd picks were terrible. 2012 - another 2nd round waste. 2013 - should be good if Jones develops and Bell looks like a tremendous choice. Takes a couple of years to see the fruits of a class. Missing on 1s and 2s 4 out of 6 years hurts.

This is on the money. Look at 2008, with Mendenhall, Sweed and Bruce Davis, and 2009, with Ziggy Hood. It is no coincidence that the Steelers drafted an OLB, RB and WR with their first three picks last year, and a defensive end in the second this year. When you miss on premium picks, you have holes to fill. If the Steelers had drafted better in 2008-09, they could have used the drafts the past few years to focus on different areas of need.

[Ghost]

I don't believe that one or two drafts sets a team back a couple of years. For different reasons most of a team's draft picks will be gone after 5 years. Teams are basically recycling different players on the roster every 4 or 5 years.

Excluding 2013 and 2014, the team basically missed on 1 first round pick (Hood) and one 2nd round pick (Sweed) since 2007. The jury still out on Adams.

Well then you'd be the only one who thinks bad drafting doesn't set a team back. Especially a team that traditionally doesn't make big splashes in free agency.

2008: Sweed was 2nd / Davis was 3rd - complete failures and Davis was a massive reach (whoever wanted him in the 3rd should have been fired for incompetence).
2009: Hood was 1st / Urbik was 2nd - 2 wasted early picks.
2011: Gilbert in the 2nd - we'll see how he improves. He was a turnstile in pass protection against the Browns. Curtis Brown in the 3rd did nothing.
2012: Adams in the 2nd - he is not good and was in danger of not making the team this year.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Well then you'd be the only one who thinks bad drafting doesn't set a team back. Especially a team that traditionally doesn't make big splashes in free agency.

2008: Sweed was 2nd / Davis was 3rd - complete failures and Davis was a massive reach (whoever wanted him in the 3rd should have been fired for incompetence).
2009: Hood was 1st / Urbik was 2nd - 2 wasted early picks.
2011: Gilbert in the 2nd - we'll see how he improves. He was a turnstile in pass protection against the Browns. Curtis Brown in the 3rd did nothing.
2012: Adams in the 2nd - he is not good and was in danger of not making the team this year.

I am not the only one. The professionals know better than any of us. Listen or read what the professionals have to say. Look up the information for yourself.

The statistics prove that a team pretty much recycles most players every 4 or 5 years. If you have any doubts of what I say take a look at the Steelers rosters from 2003 to 2008 to 2013. I'd have to look but more than half of the players on the Steelers 2010 SB team might not be on the roster anymore.

Teams generally know what they have in a player after 3 years. Only a handful of players receive large contract extensions. Most of the players that get drafted won't be with the team that originally drafted them past their first contract. Teams that have at least two players remaining from a draft 5 years earlier might be considered the average. Fans will continue to question the caliber of those players if they remain on the roster after 5 years. Take a look at the posts around here regarding players over the years if you doubt what I say.

It seems that fans expectations out of the draft and draft picks is completely unrealistic based on the data from not just the Steelers but teams around the league.

At the end of the day Steelers fans are freaking spoiled. The Steelers are remaining competitive while in the midst of replacing some good/great defensive players they've lost over the past few years.

[phillyesq]

I am not the only one. The professionals know better than any of us. Listen or read what the professionals have to say. Look up the information for yourself.

The statistics prove that a team pretty much recycles most players every 4 or 5 years. If you have any doubts of what I say take a look at the Steelers rosters from 2003 to 2008 to 2013. I'd have to look but more than half of the players on the Steelers 2010 SB team might not be on the roster anymore.

Teams generally know what they have in a player after 3 years. Only a handful of players receive large contract extensions. Most of the players that get drafted won't be with the team that originally drafted them past their first contract. Teams that have at least two players remaining from a draft 5 years earlier might be considered the average. Fans will continue to question the caliber of those players if they remain on the roster after 5 years. Take a look at the posts around here regarding players over the years if you doubt what I say.

It seems that fans expectations out of the draft and draft picks is completely unrealistic based on the data from not just the Steelers but teams around the league.

At the end of the day Steelers fans are freaking spoiled. The Steelers are remaining competitive while in the midst of replacing some good/great defensive players they've lost over the past few years.

During the Steelers SB runs, they were fueled by players on their first or second contracts. When they drafted somebody in the first round, they got a starter for a decade. Ben, Troy, Heath, Faneca, Hampton, etc. The Steelers rarely gave a third contract, but the poor drafts left them without younger players capable of stepping in. That led to old players and some of the cap problems.

[Captain Lemming]

2013 - should be good if Jones develops and Bell looks like a tremendous choice. Takes a couple of years to see the fruits of a class. Missing on 1s and 2s 4 out of 6 years hurts.

Are you kidding me? Jones ....really.
Dude ain't never gonna be a serviceable backup.....definitely NOT a future replacement for Ben.
That was a definite miss.

Wait........you meant THE OTHER JONES.......NEVERMIND.

[BURGH86STEEL]

During the Steelers SB runs, they were fueled by players on their first or second contracts. When they drafted somebody in the first round, they got a starter for a decade. Ben, Troy, Heath, Faneca, Hampton, etc. The Steelers rarely gave a third contract, but the poor drafts left them without younger players capable of stepping in. That led to old players and some of the cap problems.

They didn't or don't always get a decade of production out of their first round draft picks. Do you remember 1st round draft picks D. Figures, J. Stephens, Chad Scott, Troy Edwards, Plax, Simmons, & Holmes? All those first round draft picks didn't last 10 years with the team.

The team had player changes from each SB run. Some of those were key player changes.

I agree that the Steelers were built around a core group of players. Sometimes it takes the perfect storm of losing, luck, & the players coming out of college to build. Players like Troy, Ben, and Hampton don't come out of the draft every year.

It's extremely rare that a player lasts 10 plus years with one team. Some people are saying that 10 plus year players Troy and Ike are or were done.

I don't believe it simply boils down to poor drafting. There are other factors involved. There hasn't been a team that's been able to figure everything out 80% of the time.

The system is set up in such a way that no team can remain on top forever. A teams draft position isn't the only factor or key to a successful draft. The strengths and weakness of a draft are also key. If the players in every draft had an equal amountof talent, per position, then the job for organizations would be easier. Unfortunately,the level of talent from draft to draft isn't equal. The BPA in the first round at 10 in the 2014 draft may not be as good as the BPA drafted in the first round at 25 in the 2015 draft.

Free agency & salary capp ruined the system where teams could stock pile players and have them ready to step in for aging vets. In perfect Steelers world the organization would have a stock pile of players ready to step in at every position. That's a completely unrealistic expectation with the current structure of the NFL.

Teams that spend money to remain competitive should probably always have capp issues. The Steelers don't usually allow themselves to get into contracts that they can't cut loose after two or three seasons. Ben was probably the only player the organizationed offered the kind of upfront money that could had crippled the team a few years if he didn't pan out.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Replacing good/great players like the Steelers had just doesn't happen over night.

Exactly. Think about the level of players that we are trying to replace, too. Aaron Smith. Casey Hampton. James Harrison. James Farrior. Hines Ward. Excellent, excellent players, all. And soon we'll need to replace guys like Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, and Heath Miller as well. Not an easy task. But I think we have drafted some young building block type players in recent years. Antonio Brown. Maurkice Pouncey. Cam Heyward. David DeCastro. Le'Veon Bell. Transition ain't easy. If we are able to progress from one generation of championship caliber football to another generation of championship caliber football without dropping below .500 for a season...that's pretty remarkable. This team certainly still has a lot to prove, but I think the arrow is starting to point up again.

[Ghost]

I am not the only one. The professionals know better than any of us. Listen or read what the professionals have to say. Look up the information for yourself.

The statistics prove that a team pretty much recycles most players every 4 or 5 years. If you have any doubts of what I say take a look at the Steelers rosters from 2003 to 2008 to 2013. I'd have to look but more than half of the players on the Steelers 2010 SB team might not be on the roster anymore.

Teams generally know what they have in a player after 3 years. Only a handful of players receive large contract extensions. Most of the players that get drafted won't be with the team that originally drafted them past their first contract. Teams that have at least two players remaining from a draft 5 years earlier might be considered the average. Fans will continue to question the caliber of those players if they remain on the roster after 5 years. Take a look at the posts around here regarding players over the years if you doubt what I say.

It seems that fans expectations out of the draft and draft picks is completely unrealistic based on the data from not just the Steelers but teams around the league.

At the end of the day Steelers fans are freaking spoiled. The Steelers are remaining competitive while in the midst of replacing some good/great defensive players they've lost over the past few years.

I know now you think you are smarter than everyone and a better fan but neither is remotely true. Continually missing on early round picks such as they did hurts the team. There is no arguing it. It doesn't fill needs and then it causes them to redraft positions. What is so hard to understand.