Ron Cook: Steelers lucky to have Mike Tomlin as coach

[feltdizz]

I can see the difference. I have seen the difference since the beginning. But, when you say Cowher got away with putting together losing sloppy teams your points lose credibility.

Well... he wasn't fired after 7-9 or a few 6-10 seasons. IMO it means he got away with them and was able to keep his job.

Did he rebound? Sure....
Did fans complain and criticize? Yep...

Did some fans want Bill gone even when we had good seasons? Yep... and some of those fans were bat sh#t crazy and called out for it.

Like I said earlier... no one has a problem with fans criticizng Tomlin. Its those who are NEVER happy and want him gone after every loss, fumble, int or cliche he uses in an unterview. Its the fans who get angry at his "bug eyes" when they see him on TV. Those are the ones who need to step back from the computer and get a life.

When some fans get mad when they see Tomlin on TV when we are winning the game... those are the ones Cook is addressing.

[feltdizz]

Since you don't know me...or really anything about me I won't take your comments personally. I don't have any desire to convince anyone of anything specifically about me. If you think I am acting "above it all" because I disagree then so be it. I don't have it all figured out but I do know what isn't working. I do know media stench when I read it. I do believe racism is on both sides of the fence but the other side of the fence never gets addressed in the media. It will take both the white and black communities looking at themselves soberly, policing those within their communities, and intolerance being shunned before any real progress will be made.

Dude... if you were jumped by 5 Black guys in a hate crime and my response was to list off white hate crimes it wouldn't make you feel any better. It wouldn't ease your frustration or calm you down...

My point.... Cook is talking Tomlin, the HC of the Steelers and we are on a message board dedicated to the Steelers.

Saying "well, blacks have racist too" doesn't negate Cooks point about Tomlin and some fans who have an irrational hate for the man.

[Shawn]

Well... he wasn't fired after 7-9 or a few 6-10 seasons. IMO it means he got away with them and was able to keep his job.

Did he rebound? Sure....
Did fans complain and criticize? Yep...

Did some fans want Bill gone even when we had good seasons? Yep... and some of those fans were bat sh#t crazy and called out for it.

Like I said earlier... no one has a problem with fans criticizng Tomlin. Its those who are NEVER happy and want him gone after every loss, fumble, int or cliche he uses in an unterview. Its the fans who get angry at his "bug eyes" when they see him on TV. Those are the ones who need to step back from the computer and get a life.

When some fans get mad when they see Tomlin on TV when we are winning the game... those are the ones Cook is addressing.

I agree with all of that. I suppose the only thing we really disagree on is the motivation behind Cook's article. I would actually call this a responsible article if Tomlin had burning crosses on his lawn, his kids were getting harassed at school, or more than a hand full of ignorants were making comments. I suppose you and I have different filters based upon our own life experience. I see the occasional racist comment...and then a few posters who might tread a very fine line. You see and remember those comments...I glance past them. While when I read articles like this one...it lights me up because it tends to propagate the feeling I have as a white man that comments about the performance of a black man in power are construed as racist by some.

[Shawn]

Dude... if you were jumped by 5 Black guys in a hate crime and my response was to list off white hate crimes it wouldn't make you feel any better. It wouldn't ease your frustration or calm you down...

My point.... Cook is talking Tomlin, the HC of the Steelers and we are on a message board dedicated to the Steelers.

Saying "well, blacks have racist too" doesn't negate Cooks point about Tomlin and some fans who have an irrational hate for the man.

And this is you debating strawman. I never suggested anything you just said, and you must have missed my entire point. Next, did Tomlin get jumped by 5 white guys? Come on...Tomlin has been received well by the majority of Steeler fans and honestly it just seems like a whiny article to me. We act like Tomlin has had it hard since coming to the Burgh. Please let me know of any real tangible evidence that Tomlin has been persecuted. Come on.

[Slapstick]

lol...if you say so Slappy. I suppose the irony in all of this is the fact that Cook did exactly what he intended to do. Cook used a hot topic to get hits nothing more nothing less. The vast majority of Steeler fans just want a winning coach and I stand by that. I never said silence is the best answer. I'm saying having rational civil discourse is indeed a good thing. That wasn't Cook's intention...he was race baiting to get hits and for the life of me don't understand how you don't see that. When we sit around saying its racist this...racist the word loses meaning and effectiveness. Everything everywhere...no matter what channel you turn on is racism. How about we concentrate on being personally responsible for our own lives...our own actions and attitudes and clean up our side of the street. If Cook wants to critique maybe he should look in the mirror first.

If he is saying something that we all know is true, how is that "race baiting"?

If that is what Cook wanted, he got it from you. I was not compelled to post because of the column...it was the odd response to the column that got me started...

[Shawn]

If he is saying something that we all know is true, how is that "race baiting"?

If that is what Cook wanted, he got it from you. I was not compelled to post because of the column...it was the odd response to the column that got me started...

We all read it so yes he got what he wanted. Hence my comment about irony.

[feltdizz]

I agree with all of that. I suppose the only thing we really disagree on is the motivation behind Cook's article. I would actually call this a responsible article if Tomlin had burning crosses on his lawn, his kids were getting harassed at school, or more than a hand full of ignorants were making comments. I suppose you and I have different filters based upon our own life experience. I see the occasional racist comment...and then a few posters who might tread a very fine line. You see and remember those comments...I glance past them. While when I read articles like this one...it lights me up because it tends to propagate the feeling I have as a white man that comments about the performance of a black man in power are construed as racist by some.

You make it sound like Cook qrote an article about race.. lol. Reread the article. He listed off 3 or 4 reasons why some could criticize Tomlin... He had 1 sentence that said "sadly, some of the criticism is racially motivated. All of it is misguided"

Do you really need a burning cross for this article to be written? Smh.. It doesnt have to be Jim Crow levels for Cook to write that line.

You don't think Tomlins kids get picked on at school? Wow, you give kids way too much credit. Honestly, the requirements you listed for writing this article are pretty disturbing. This article isn't even about race...lol. There is one line about race and you ran with it out of guilt or a need to debate a topic that wasn't the meat of the article.

[bostonsteeler]

Wait let me ask Dizz a real question. How many black folks do you know who do not like white people just because they are white? How many do you know who hate white people? In my circles, I know of one person who does not like black people openly. She was shamed publically by whites. Racism isn't condoned in most white communities and is a sign of a lack of education, intelligence and culture. That's in the deep south.

Not taking sides here, but fact of the matter is, most whites look upon blacks with a touch of condescension. This is the reason they go overboard with our attempts at being "unbiased" -- when a condescending person tries to act fair, they tip the scale the other way, lowering the standard they set for the other person, even if the other person neither needs the extra fillip, nor deserves the condescension.

If we heard someone speak badly of "those british idiots", we wouldn't admonish them. In our opinion, the Brits don't need our support, they're doing fine all by themselves. But if we hear someone say "that black XXXX", we admonish them. This too is latent racism IMO, although of a somewhat more benign kind than people like HHH on the other forum.

When Cook brings up the topic, he actually takes this position. We're discussion coaches. He's telling us why we're lucky. He could leave it at the coach's merits?

I stick by my original statement -- the last two seasons were entirely disappointing. Our 6-2 recovery? -- We beat the 4-12 clowns, 7-9 detroit, the bungles, and a Rodgers-less GB. We lost to Miami at home, when we could least afford to. Tannehill (!!) scored 3 TDs! We couldn't stop Flacco! The only victory of note was against the Bungles. Most importantly, when we simply couldn't afford to lose, we did.

The prior season -- we lost to the Titans, Raiders and Browns. We ended the season 2-6! We began the next one 2-6!

None of which would matter if the 2014 preseason had shown that the team had regained some spark. It looked lost on the field, as in utterly lost.

THe reason, as far as I can make out, is Haley's miserable O. And the HC isn't able to set the ship right. I *hope* I'm proved wrong, and am totally hoping Im just being a Cassandra, but so far, I haven't seen the HC as being able to do anything about the O. He has pretty much given over the reins of the D to Lebeau (who's D has been increasingly suspect for some years).

I'm basing my assessment on how he handles the parts. THe HC is not a cheer leader. He's supposed to be the leader with the top-level overview who leads the strategy. I don't think he has shown the ability to do that with Haley's O.

[feltdizz]

And this is you debating strawman. I never suggested anything you just said, and you must have missed my entire point. Next, did Tomlin get jumped by 5 white guys? Come on...Tomlin has been received well by the majority of Steeler fans and honestly it just seems like a whiny article to me. We act like Tomlin has had it hard since coming to the Burgh. Please let me know of any real tangible evidence that Tomlin has been persecuted. Come on.

Who said he was persecuted? All that was said is some fans criticism is racially motivated.

I cant believe you missed my point... well, I can but smh.

Cook said something that is true and you felt the need to say "they do it too"...

Ok, they do it too... now what? Does it erase the previous? Does it make the orinal statement less true?

[feltdizz]

If he is saying something that we all know is true, how is that "race baiting"?

If that is what Cook wanted, he got it from you. I was not compelled to post because of the column...it was the odd response to the column that got me started...

Exactly.. the article wasn't centered around race or racism. It just showed that after 7 years both coaches are 71-41.. and Tomlin has yet to have a losing season. Cook even listed off all the reasons why one could criticize Tomlin but thinks all are misguided because he see's the ship turning in a good direction.

It was a "calm down, step back, relax" article. That line stood out to some because I think it touched a nerve.

1 line about race and now some talk as though the whole article was about racism and saving Tomlin out of white guilt.

[feltdizz]

Not taking sides here, but fact of the matter is, most whites look upon blacks with a touch of condescension. This is the reason they go overboard with our attempts at being "unbiased" -- when a condescending person tries to act fair, they tip the scale the other way, lowering the standard they set for the other person, even if the other person neither needs the extra fillip, nor deserves the condescension.

If we heard someone speak badly of "those british idiots", we wouldn't admonish them. In our opinion, the Brits don't need our support, they're doing fine all by themselves. But if we hear someone say "that black XXXX", we admonish them. This too is latent racism IMO, although of a somewhat more benign kind than people like HHH on the other forum.

When Cook brings up the topic, he actually takes this position. We're discussion coaches. He's telling us why we're lucky. He could leave it at the coach's merits?

I stick by my original statement -- the last two seasons were entirely disappointing. Our 6-2 recovery? -- We beat the 4-12 clowns, 7-9 detroit, the bungles, and a Rodgers-less GB. We lost to Miami at home, when we could least afford to. Tannehill (!!) scored 3 TDs! We couldn't stop Flacco! The only victory of note was against the Bungles. Most importantly, when we simply couldn't afford to lose, we did.

The prior season -- we lost to the Titans, Raiders and Browns. We ended the season 2-6! We began the next one 2-6!

None of which would matter if the 2014 preseason had shown that the team had regained some spark. It looked lost on the field, as in utterly lost.

THe reason, as far as I can make out, is Haley's miserable O. And the HC isn't able to set the ship right. I *hope* I'm proved wrong, and am totally hoping Im just being a Cassandra, but so far, I haven't seen the HC as being able to do anything about the O. He has pretty much given over the reins of the D to Lebeau (who's D has been increasingly suspect for some years).

I'm basing my assessment on how he handles the parts. THe HC is not a cheer leader. He's supposed to be the leader with the top-level overview who leads the strategy. I don't think he has shown the ability to do that with Haley's O.

You got all that from 1 line in an article about race?

The last 2 years have been bad... thats 2 straight seasons of .500 football. Really, when you look at Tomlins resume since he was hired how the hell can you write all this "going overboard" to defend him?

He did leave it on the coaches merits. 2 SB appearances, 1 ring, 2-0 in championship games, 5-2 in the post season.

[SteelCrazy]

Most NFL coaches could take a great team to the Super Bowl. To get to the Super Bowl, you must have a great team. Fielding a great team is not the brain child of any coach. A GM that knows how to draft and bring in the right free agents is how you rack up Super Bowl trophies. Kevin Colbert is responsible for our back to back 8-8 seasons.

[bostonsteeler]

You got all that from 1 line in an article about race?

The last 2 years have been bad... thats 2 straight seasons of .500 football. Really, when you look at Tomlins resume since he was hired how the hell can you write all this "going overboard" to defend him?

He did leave it on the coaches merits. 2 SB appearances, 1 ring, 2-0 in championship games, 5-2 in the post season.

Two different responses there, in case you didn't notice.
a) I just pointed out that being condescending or gratuitous statements like "he's so smart" are also racist, indicating a lowered expectation.
b) Cook was discussing whether we were lucky to have Tomlin. In the midst of it, there was a gratuitous interjection of *fans'* racism.
If he were talking about a racsim or race-related topic, it would be fully apropos. Nobody in their sane mind can deny the existence of racism, or the fact that it needs fixing. Here it was gratuitous. It almost came across as "only the racist guys don't think you're lucky to have him". I don't care to argue about it, but if it came across that way to me, it must've done so to others too. I don't care to be guilt tripped over honest feelings.

The last three seasons have not been good, and its been particularly miserable since we got whacked by a nobody who had a career day in Denver. Im still waiting for the ship to be righted.

Noll had an amazing career. In 1991? I wanted him gone. It was a decade of frustration. In 1999, I was frustrated with Cowher -- two seasons of frustration with no signs of recovery. Right now, the preseason hasn't shown promise after nearly 3 bad seasons. If this season goes down the drain, I'll want Tomlin gone. His past record will be irrelevant; my surmise would be that he has lost the fire in the belly. If we make it back to the playoffs, I'll get back on the bandwagon.

[Shawn]

Most NFL coaches could take a great team to the Super Bowl. To get to the Super Bowl, you must have a great team. Fielding a great team is not the brain child of any coach. A GM that knows how to draft and bring in the right free agents is how you rack up Super Bowl trophies. Kevin Colbert is responsible for our back to back 8-8 seasons.

Then you don't know how the Steelers do business. Colbert and Tomlin have been quoted as saying that they both make the final decision on draft picks.

[Shawn]

Two different responses there, in case you didn't notice.
a) I just pointed out that being condescending or gratuitous statements like "he's so smart" are also racist, indicating a lowered expectation.
b) Cook was discussing whether we were lucky to have Tomlin. In the midst of it, there was a gratuitous interjection of *fans'* racism.
If he were talking about a racsim or race-related topic, it would be fully apropos. Nobody in their sane mind can deny the existence of racism, or the fact that it needs fixing. Here it was gratuitous. It almost came across as "only the racist guys don't think you're lucky to have him". I don't care to argue about it, but if it came across that way to me, it must've done so to others too. I don't care to be guilt tripped over honest feelings.

The last three seasons have not been good, and its been particularly miserable since we got whacked by a nobody who had a career day in Denver. Im still waiting for the ship to be righted.

Noll had an amazing career. In 1991? I wanted him gone. It was a decade of frustration. In 1999, I was frustrated with Cowher -- two seasons of frustration with no signs of recovery. Right now, the preseason hasn't shown promise after nearly 3 bad seasons. If this season goes down the drain, I'll want Tomlin gone. His past record will be irrelevant; my surmise would be that he has lost the fire in the belly. If we make it back to the playoffs, I'll get back on the bandwagon.

Two solid posts and I agree with both. Whether it was meant to be suggested or not...I read the article like you read the article. Not holding Tomlin to the same lofty standards we hold all Steeler coaches to is a racist act. IMO, there was at bare minimum a suggestion that if you don't feel lucky to have Tomlin as our coach then you are a racist. Well, after two 8-8 seasons I am not feeling so lucky.