I didn't write it but could of...

[Captain Lemming]

BTW Tomlins knowledge of the 4/3 is the Tampa 2. That ain't Seattles D. How had THAT defense looked lately?


Recent teams running it.
Minnesota, da Bears, the Lions, and now.....the worst defense in Cowboy HISTORY featuring Monte Kiffin. While all teams do a little of it, EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE that has a defense built on the Tampa 2 is a dog. It is played, figured out.


Every defensive coach in the Dungy tree has been fired save for ONE, Tomlin. (Lovie is bringing it back to Tampa, don't they learn). Why is Tomlin the one survivor? He does not foolishly cling to that defense but recognizes defensive GENIUS in DL who he only HOPES does not retire soon.

Since coming to Pittsburgh Tomlin has had more success both in terms of winning and in terms of defensive dominance THAN ALL TAMPA 2 defenses have had CUMULATIVELY.

ONE FINAL POINT.

Those of you who call our defense a run stop defense, in a passing league.

Tomlin and DL have had THE LEAGUES TOP PASS DEFENSE SEVERAL TIMES.

Tomlin only ran a 4/3 defense ONCE in his career, once without DL when he was Viking DC.
DEAD LAST IN THE NFL IN PASS DEFENSE.

So how exactly does a return to THAT fix our pass defense?

[ikestops85]

BTW Tomlins knowledge of the 4/3 is the Tampa 2. That ain't Seattles D. How had THAT defense looked lately?


Recent teams running it.
Minnesota, da Bears, the Lions, and now.....the worst defense in Cowboy HISTORY featuring Monte Kiffin. While all teams do a little of it, EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE that has a defense built on the Tampa 2 is a dog. It is played, figured out.


Every defensive coach in the Dungy tree has been fired save for ONE, Tomlin. (Lovie is bringing it back to Tampa, don't they learn). Why is Tomlin the one survivor? He does not foolishly cling to that defense but recognizes defensive GENIUS in DL who he only HOPES does not retire soon.

Since coming to Pittsburgh Tomlin has had more success both in terms of winning and in terms of defensive dominance THAN ALL TAMPA 2 defenses have had CUMULATIVELY.

ONE FINAL POINT.

Those of you who call our defense a run stop defense, in a passing league.

Tomlin and DL have had THE LEAGUES TOP PASS DEFENSE SEVERAL TIMES.

Tomlin only ran a 4/3 defense ONCE in his career, once without DL when he was Viking DC.
DEAD LAST IN THE NFL IN PASS DEFENSE.

So how exactly does a return to THAT fix our pass defense?

There you go Captain letting facts interfere with a good story.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Not even sure i know who is playing NT for the Texans

Oh, then the steelers drafted Tuitt over Nix....

The Texans just drafted Louis Nix (with the pick that originally belonged to us...our original 2014 3rd round pick that we traded to Cleveland a year earlier for the right draft Shamarko Thomas in the 4th round in 2013).

[Captain Lemming]

Again I am gonna get specific with this. The team that recently made dramatic strides in short order after making such a switch is the Colts. From 2 wins with the 30th scoring defense featuring the Tampa 2 4/3 to playoffs twice and 10th in scoring defense. Now Luck impacted the win total no doubt but the defense is greatly improved.


The Cowboys making the opposite switch......not so good.


The problem with switching to a 4/3 is that many GREAT 3/4 pass rushers are to small to be defensive ends and not agile enough to be 4/3 linebackers. But almost all 4/3 teams have one or more lean and athletic DEs that can play LBer in our D.

[Captain Lemming]

The Texans just drafted Louis Nix (with the pick that originally belonged to us...our original 2014 3rd round pick that we traded to Cleveland a year earlier for the right draft Shamarko Thomas in the 4th round in 2013).

Yes, AFTER we draft BOTH a MLBer in round 1 AND a defensive end in round 2 finally in round THREE he is drafted despite the dire need some of you saw.

The prototype NT, THE BEST NT in all of COLLEGE FOOTBALL so essential for a 3/4 in a league where half the teams run a 3/4 gets drafted AFTER EIGHTY TWO other players.

Save for kickers EVERY OTHER POSITION PICKED MULTIPLE TIMES before Nix.

And some of you wanted this dude in the first.

[sick beats]

I see DL coaching for another 5 years.. Ben will be on his way out when DL retires so we don't have to worry about wasting Ben's last few years. I also think it's much easier to go from the 3-4 to the 4-3 vs 4-3 to 3-4.

Only if you have a good front 4. If those guys can't get to the QB, a 4-3 is FAIL. It USED to be that you could find good OLBs for a 3-4 by taking tweener DEs from college and converting them, with mid-level draft picks. But with more teams using the 3-4 it seems you have to draft the OLBs spots a little earlier. As it is now, I don't know if 3-4 OLBs are any easier to find than 4-3 DEs. I honestly like a solid 4-3 D better than a 3-4 because you don't need to get caught up in any complexities, as if you have a DL that gets it done in a 4-3, you can pretty much just let the DL do it's job, and not worry about zone blitzes, etc. If our scheme was do damn good, why can't we get any pressure on the QB the last few years? Because you need more than a tricky LeBoo scheme; you still need the players.

[sick beats]

BTW Tomlins knowledge of the 4/3 is the Tampa 2. That ain't Seattles D. How had THAT defense looked lately?


Recent teams running it.
Minnesota, da Bears, the Lions, and now.....the worst defense in Cowboy HISTORY featuring Monte Kiffin. While all teams do a little of it, EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE that has a defense built on the Tampa 2 is a dog. It is played, figured out.


Every defensive coach in the Dungy tree has been fired save for ONE, Tomlin. (Lovie is bringing it back to Tampa, don't they learn). Why is Tomlin the one survivor? He does not foolishly cling to that defense but recognizes defensive GENIUS in DL who he only HOPES does not retire soon.

Since coming to Pittsburgh Tomlin has had more success both in terms of winning and in terms of defensive dominance THAN ALL TAMPA 2 defenses have had CUMULATIVELY.

ONE FINAL POINT.

Those of you who call our defense a run stop defense, in a passing league.

Tomlin and DL have had THE LEAGUES TOP PASS DEFENSE SEVERAL TIMES.

Tomlin only ran a 4/3 defense ONCE in his career, once without DL when he was Viking DC.
DEAD LAST IN THE NFL IN PASS DEFENSE.

So how exactly does a return to THAT fix our pass defense?

Not all 4-3s are Tampa 2 Ds. And I still think if you have the players, a TB 2 could still work. There is no doubt the TB 2 was an utter failure in Dallas last season, but a lot could be blamed on that other than the D system they were using: lack of talent, Jerry's meddling mng style, no true leadership due to Jerry's meddling, etc.

[K Train]

Tampa 2 is for amateur hour anyway

[phillyesq]

Ovi:

Isn't this the opposite of what you always say:

Despite Tomlin's strong background in the 4-3, Wilcots wonders if he would go back to it given how hyperactive offenses are becoming.
“He believes the college game gives you players that are better suited for a 3-4 defense — like he said, it's hard to find a (Hall of Fame defensive lineman) Warren Sapp,” Wilcots said. “You do find a lot of outside linebackers who can put pressure on the quarterback. The way offenses play with the spread, the defensive guys come in ready to plug and play into a 3-4.”

After a franchise QB, the second rarest commodity in the NFL is a 4-3 DE. The franchise tag numbers bear that out. Elite DEs are the second highest paid position in the game, because they are the second most scarce.

[Captain Lemming]

Not all 4-3s are Tampa 2 Ds. And I still think if you have the players, a TB 2 could still work. There is no doubt the TB 2 was an utter failure in Dallas last season, but a lot could be blamed on that other than the D system they were using: lack of talent, Jerry's meddling mng style, no true leadership due to Jerry's meddling, etc.

I repeat:
"BTW Tomlins knowledge of the 4/3 is the Tampa 2. That ain't Seattles D."

The FIRST LINE OF my comment acknowledges that the Tampa 2 is not the only 4/3.

I am addressing the thought expressed in the article that Tomlins 4/3 background makes him inclined to run that defense. The 4/3 that HE CAME FROM, that HE RAN at the Vikings is the Tampa 2.

The Tampa 2 failure at Dallas is NOT unique. EVERY SINGLE TEAM currently running it is a BAD defense. That has been the case for several years.

[RuthlessBurgher]

For everyone deriding the "Tampa 2" defense now, you do realize that even though it has "Tampa" in the title, it really originated in Pittsburgh with Bud Carson and the Steel Curtain, right? Tony Dungy was a DB for the Steelers for a couple of seasons in the late 70's, and that's where he developed his overall defensive philosophy.

[Oviedo]

Ovi:

Isn't this the opposite of what you always say:



After a franchise QB, the second rarest commodity in the NFL is a 4-3 DE. The franchise tag numbers bear that out. Elite DEs are the second highest paid position in the game, because they are the second most scarce.

Most scarce or most impactful? I don't think it is scarcity. I think the demand and therefore value is driven by the two positions that impact a game and team success the most---QB and DE sacking machine.

[Oviedo]

For everyone deriding the "Tampa 2" defense now, you do realize that even though it has "Tampa" in the title, it really originated in Pittsburgh with Bud Carson and the Steel Curtain, right? Tony Dungy was a DB for the Steelers for a couple of seasons in the late 70's, and that's where he developed his overall defensive philosophy.

He was more than a DB

He was hired as an assistant by Steelers head coach Chuck Noll, his former head coach from his playing days with the team, in 1981. His work under Noll put Dungy in the Sid Gillman coaching tree. In 1982, he was named defensive backfield coach, and was promoted in 1984 to defensive coordinator.

[K Train]

Still doesnt create a warm spot in my heart for the tampa 2

[Captain Lemming]

For everyone deriding the "Tampa 2" defense now, you do realize that even though it has "Tampa" in the title, it really originated in Pittsburgh with Bud Carson and the Steel Curtain, right? Tony Dungy was a DB for the Steelers for a couple of seasons in the late 70's, and that's where he developed his overall defensive philosophy.

Yes, I know this. No one says it did not have its time. Makes no difference to the point which is that it is that this defense has been a dog LATELY. Bringing up Bud Carson of all people into the conversation of all people kinda reenforces my point that this defense past tense.