Defense, defense, defense...

[phillyesq]

The nickel is not a 4 man Def Line. You are talking apples and oranges when citing play in the nickel as an indicator.

When it comes to rushing the passer, not at all. You can see that Cam Heyward collapses the pocket and gets after the QB. Keisel also gets pressure. Hood does not.

[phillyesq]

We hear that all the time...

In the case of McClendon, he has done nothing to disprove that he is a marginal to below-average starter.

[Captain Lemming]

How many guys on the 2014 Steelers do you really think would have been starters for Seattle? I think 3 would be a lot.

I say only ONE. Timmons.
But of course the only our problem is our DC not lack of talent.

Or we need another Casey because making no plays and the rare skill of being able to "occupying blockers" will will magically make Vince Williams into the next Farrior, JJ into Deebo and turn the clocks back on aging Troy.

Funny how Farrior used to tease Casey that he was BETTER behind Hoke.

[steelz09]

I say only ONE. Timmons.
But of course the only our problem is our DC not lack of talent.

Or we need another Casey because making no plays and the rare skill of being able to "occupying blockers" will will magically make Vince Williams into the next Farrior, JJ into Deebo and turn the clocks back on aging Troy.

Timmons would be a backup for SF.

[Captain Lemming]

In the case of McClendon, he has done nothing to disprove that he is a marginal to below-average starter.

Nose tackles are judged based on the success of others.
We had the number one defense in the league in the only time Casey missed half the season.
All of a sudden HOKE could be a starter anywhere else in the league. Dude could not make the ALL MOUNTAIN WEST team.

As long and we have average players BEHIND the NT, the NT will look bad.

[Captain Lemming]

Timmons would be a backup for SF.

Sho nuff

[papillon]

You may see that as a compliment but I see it as a problem. I doubt these kids will keep up with DL and all the info he puts on them. The guy is a genius but the average football player isn't a scholar. Simplify, simplify, simplify...its the only way we will get these kids up to speed before DL hits 100.

So, you're saying that when the Steelers had dominant defenses that Lebeau simplified the defense for them or they were all Rhodes Scholars compared to today's players? I'm fairly certain the defense wasn't simplified for Smith, Porter, Farrior, Harrison, Hampton, Taylor, Polamalu, etc, the players on defense today simply aren't that good, regardless, of the fact that you can't have All-Pro players at every position, the Steelers have very few players that would be starters on the top 5 teams' defenses in the NFL, certainly none of the secondary (I doubt Polamalu even starts), Timmons at the second level and Heyward from the D-line. You need more than that to succeed and no amount of simplification will help, IMO.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

So, you're saying that when the Steelers had dominant defenses that Lebeau simplified the defense for them or they were all Rhodes Scholars compared to today's players? I'm fairly certain the defense wasn't simplified for Smith, Porter, Farrior, Harrison, Hampton, Taylor, Polamalu, etc, the players on defense today simply aren't that good, regardless, of the fact that you can't have All-Pro players at every position, the Steelers have very few players that would be starters on the top 5 teams' defenses in the NFL, certainly none of the secondary (I doubt Polamalu even starts), Timmons at the second level and Heyward from the D-line. You need more than that to succeed and no amount of simplification will help, IMO.

Pappy

I'm saying years ago we had time on our side... we had ample time to develop players on practice squads and enough talent to hide 1 or 2 positions while they learned the system.

If you think we can lose Woodley, Clark, Hampton, Haggans, JH, Farrior, Foote, Hood, Smith, Keisel?, Lewis and use the same scheme/model as we did when we only had to fill 1 or 2 positions we aren't going to see this D turn the corner under Lebeau.


The problem is back in the day we didn't add 5 to 6 players in a 2 year window to our D and need them to perform at a high level.

edit: and the key word is "dominant".... we haven't been dominant in a while. I know we had a #1 stat a few years ago but that D didn't pass the eye test for domination when you put it up against other Steeler D's.

[Steelhere10]

I agree with Felt, the last time this defense have been dominate was 2008. Good since then but not dominate.

[feltdizz]

I agree with Felt, the last time this defense have been dominate was 2008. Good since then but not dominate.

A dominant D could put in Troy and get away with it for a year... they could let Harrison and Ike play ST's for a few years before plugging them in full time...

[papillon]

I'm saying years ago we had time on our side... we had ample time to develop players on practice squads and enough talent to hide 1 or 2 positions while they learned the system.

If you think we can lose Woodley, Clark, Hampton, Haggans, JH, Farrior, Foote, Hood, Smith, Keisel?, Lewis and use the same scheme/model as we did when we only had to fill 1 or 2 positions we aren't going to see this D turn the corner under Lebeau.


The problem is back in the day we didn't add 5 to 6 players in a 2 year window to our D and need them to perform at a high level.

edit: and the key word is "dominant".... we haven't been dominant in a while. I know we had a #1 stat a few years ago but that D didn't pass the eye test for domination when you put it up against other Steeler D's.

You're right, I can't disagree with any of that, really, but I hate hearing about how complex the defense is for rookies and young players to grasp, these guys have been playing football for a long time, it really shouldn't take more than a year to get comfortable in a defense, should it? I don't think so, but if they aren't good enough football players no amount of knowledge of the defense will help.

The Steelers have been fortunate to have some really good football players at key positions on defense for many years and now they don't, Hampton on the D-line, Farrior and Harrison the LB corps and Troy in the secondary. One is a HOFer and the other three were certainly top 5-8 at their position for at least 5 years. Who now? No one, that's who, bad drafting and no development has put the Steelers in a position in which they are unfamiliar. IMO, it's not because the defensive playbook is too complex for them.

Pappy

[K Train]

Timmons would be a backup for SF.

No, Ahmad brooks wouldnt have a job there