Dulac On Assistant Coaches

[steelblood]

Someday I will get what I want and so many will see that change is not bad and could actually be an improvement. There are lots of very good young defensive coaches out there who are being successful in the NFL. Dan Quinn from the Seahawks is 43 years old and doesn't seem to have any problems finding talent, getting them playing in their first or second year and having the #1 in the NFL.

This is obviously a discussion topic of extremes where the love of one coach overrides all else on one side of the argument and the desire for change is on the other. No real common ground so time will play this one out.

Change is necessary at this point. Heck, other than Jarvis Jones, we really have the players and opportunity to switch to a 4-3 as you often call for.

[Shoe]

You might be right Ovi but I still remember the days of Tim Lewis and Jim Haslett. They were young up and comers at the time but failed as our DC. Just because you are young does not mean you are good.

What first year talent has Dan Quinn developed? Aaron Curry? He didn't work out that well. How about Cam Chancellor? Nope, he didn't start a game his first year under Quinn. Bruce Irvin? Again he didn't start a game his first year although he did play as a situational pass rusher much like Woodley did for us. So it looks like the only 1st year player that started for Quinn is Earl Thomas. Not that impressive considering who they previously had at the position. I guess I still don't see how these guys are so different from DL. Maybe you can explain it to me.

Haslett failed? Didn't he get a HC job as a result of his time in Pittsburgh?

The issue for me with Lebeau, is that we have quality in-house, waiting in the wings. Butler is highly regarded, enough so that most think he is DL's heir apparent. Why waste prime (coaching) years of our heir apparent, letting a past-his-prime DL continue to sit in the head chair (unless you think he's not past his prime, in which case you are being irrational). We also have Carnell Lake, the golden child of the board here. If he has good as stated, should we continue to let him also sit and rot on the vine? Or how about Jerry Olsavsky, who's already taking feelers from other teams.

Lebeau is SEVENTY-SIX YEARS OLD. 76! To dismiss the thought of replacing him is terribly short-sighted. Should we ignore the signs (of a slipping defense) until he's... 80? Why should a guy that old, get a free pass? It isn't like the difference between a 36 year old and a 40 year old. At 76, you are highly subject to the laws of nature.

Let's get off our politically correct horse, and talk real.

[squidkid]

Haslett failed? Didn't he get a HC job as a result of his time in Pittsburgh?

The issue for me with Lebeau, is that we have quality in-house, waiting in the wings. Butler is highly regarded, enough so that most think he is DL's heir apparent. Why waste prime (coaching) years of our heir apparent, letting a past-his-prime DL continue to sit in the head chair (unless you think he's not past his prime, in which case you are being irrational). We also have Carnell Lake, the golden child of the board here. If he has good as stated, should we continue to let him also sit and rot on the vine? Or how about Jerry Olsavsky, who's already taking feelers from other teams.

Lebeau is SEVENTY-SIX YEARS OLD. 76! To dismiss the thought of replacing him is terribly short-sighted. Should we ignore the signs (of a slipping defense) until he's... 80? Why should a guy that old, get a free pass? It isn't like the difference between a 36 year old and a 40 year old. At 76, you are highly subject to the laws of nature.

Let's get off our politically correct horse, and talk real.

so whats the age scale then for each coach position?

HC- seeing that they have to run the entire team, they should be released the earliest. so lets say 50
DC- should be gone at 40
OC- 40 also
any position coach should be let go at 35
assistants to position coaches 30

i know a few guys that start losing it at 50, so thats the cut off for HC.
DC and OC need to be fired once they hit 40. reason being is that you want your head coach to stick around a while(10 years minimum). so if youre going to promote a OC or DC to HC, you have to do it by the time they are 40.
all the other coaches fall into a similar scenario. they must promote or be fired by the designated age or else they wont have time to be a fully functioning(mentally) coach at the upper levels. teams need to utilize these coaches before they reach their expiration date.

[feltdizz]

so whats the age scale then for each coach position?

HC- seeing that they have to run the entire team, they should be released the earliest. so lets say 50
DC- should be gone at 40
OC- 40 also
any position coach should be let go at 35
assistants to position coaches 30

i know a few guys that start losing it at 50, so thats the cut off for HC.
DC and OC need to be fired once they hit 40. reason being is that you want your head coach to stick around a while(10 years minimum). so if youre going to promote a OC or DC to HC, you have to do it by the time they are 40.
all the other coaches fall into a similar scenario. they must promote or be fired by the designated age or else they wont have time to be a fully functioning(mentally) coach at the upper levels. teams need to utilize these coaches before they reach their expiration date.

I know you didn't mean to but your sensational rant prove Shoe's point...

[squidkid]

I know you didn't mean to but your sensational rant prove Shoe's point...

what point is that?
at a certain age, regardless of production, people should be fired?

[feltdizz]

what point is that?
at a certain age, regardless of production, people should be fired?

you had to low ball the age to get your point across. No one is talking about 40, 50 or even 60...

We are talking 76... if people would stick to the topic they would understand that age is ALWAYS a focus when the employee is 75+

[ikestops85]

Haslett failed? Didn't he get a HC job as a result of his time in Pittsburgh?

The issue for me with Lebeau, is that we have quality in-house, waiting in the wings. Butler is highly regarded, enough so that most think he is DL's heir apparent. Why waste prime (coaching) years of our heir apparent, letting a past-his-prime DL continue to sit in the head chair (unless you think he's not past his prime, in which case you are being irrational). We also have Carnell Lake, the golden child of the board here. If he has good as stated, should we continue to let him also sit and rot on the vine? Or how about Jerry Olsavsky, who's already taking feelers from other teams.

Lebeau is SEVENTY-SIX YEARS OLD. 76! To dismiss the thought of replacing him is terribly short-sighted. Should we ignore the signs (of a slipping defense) until he's... 80? Why should a guy that old, get a free pass? It isn't like the difference between a 36 year old and a 40 year old. At 76, you are highly subject to the laws of nature.

Let's get off our politically correct horse, and talk real.

No, we shouldn't ignore it. We also shouldn't have a knee jerk reaction and make a change just for the sake of it. Remember, you could end up with someone a lot worse than the old and feeble LeBeau. Just because a guy is young doesn't make him good.

[Oviedo]

No, we shouldn't ignore it. We also shouldn't have a knee jerk reaction and make a change just for the sake of it. Remember, you could end up with someone a lot worse than the old and feeble LeBeau. Just because a guy is young doesn't make him good.

...and just because he is young doesn't mean he won't be better, potentially much better and much better suited for now and the future.

There is a reason why the tech billionaires that have been created over the past 20-30 years started that climb in their 20s and 30s. It was the willingness to change and adapt. Need the same thing in a coach.

[ikestops85]

...and just because he is young doesn't mean he won't be better, potentially much better and much better suited for now and the future.

There is a reason why the tech billionaires that have been created over the past 20-30 years started that climb in their 20s and 30s. It was the willingness to change and adapt. Need the same thing in a coach.

I agree that we could hire a younger guy who might be better ... just might. Until LeBeau moves closer to being an average DC I say we stick with him.

Now let's talk about the great Dan Quinn. The Seahawks just drive to tie the game up 10-10 in the 3rd quarter and what does the Seattle defense do? It lets San Fran drive 83 yards for the go ahead TD. How many times has LeBeau been ripped for his defense allowing that to happen. Now we have what most consider the best defense in the league allowing the same thing to happen. Should Quinn be fired? Is he slipping? How about Quinn's defense allowing the opposing QB to run for 130 yards? One of the runs went for 58 yards. I guess people have figured out Quinn's 4-3 system but he is too stubborn to change. He'll probably use that same defense in the SB against Manning. Then, after Seattle kicks a FG to take a 6 point lead late in the 4th, Quinn's defense lets San Fran drive the length of the field and almost steal the game.

These are all the same things that LeBeau has been criticized for throughout the last couple of years. Hopefully now you realize that these things happen to all defenses, no matter the system or the coach, and not just ours. It happened to ours more this year than in the past but I don't think it means we scramble for the lifeboats yet.

[squidkid]

I agree that we could hire a younger guy who might be better ... just might. Until LeBeau moves closer to being an average DC I say we stick with him.

Now let's talk about the great Dan Quinn. The Seahawks just drive to tie the game up 10-10 in the 3rd quarter and what does the Seattle defense do? It lets San Fran drive 83 yards for the go ahead TD. How many times has LeBeau been ripped for his defense allowing that to happen. Now we have what most consider the best defense in the league allowing the same thing to happen. Should Quinn be fired? Is he slipping? How about Quinn's defense allowing the opposing QB to run for 130 yards? One of the runs went for 58 yards. I guess people have figured out Quinn's 4-3 system but he is too stubborn to change. He'll probably use that same defense in the SB against Manning. Then, after Seattle kicks a FG to take a 6 point lead late in the 4th, Quinn's defense lets San Fran drive the length of the field and almost steal the game.

These are all the same things that LeBeau has been criticized for throughout the last couple of years. Hopefully now you realize that these things happen to all defenses, no matter the system or the coach, and not just ours. It happened to ours more this year than in the past but I don't think it means we scramble for the lifeboats yet.

great post
tomlin and colbert arent drafting the right guys.

[squidkid]

okay, here's the million dollar question whenever the talk of getting rid of tomlin comes up....................who do you want to bring in to replace DL?.
who is the sure fire young gun to outperform DL's historically top 5 defense(except last year) for the next decade?
i need names

[feltdizz]

I agree that we could hire a younger guy who might be better ... just might. Until LeBeau moves closer to being an average DC I say we stick with him.

Now let's talk about the great Dan Quinn. The Seahawks just drive to tie the game up 10-10 in the 3rd quarter and what does the Seattle defense do? It lets San Fran drive 83 yards for the go ahead TD. How many times has LeBeau been ripped for his defense allowing that to happen. Now we have what most consider the best defense in the league allowing the same thing to happen. Should Quinn be fired? Is he slipping? How about Quinn's defense allowing the opposing QB to run for 130 yards? One of the runs went for 58 yards. I guess people have figured out Quinn's 4-3 system but he is too stubborn to change. He'll probably use that same defense in the SB against Manning. Then, after Seattle kicks a FG to take a 6 point lead late in the 4th, Quinn's defense lets San Fran drive the length of the field and almost steal the game.

These are all the same things that LeBeau has been criticized for throughout the last couple of years. Hopefully now you realize that these things happen to all defenses, no matter the system or the coach, and not just ours. It happened to ours more this year than in the past but I don't think it means we scramble for the lifeboats yet.

What??? Are you really trying to use the NFCCG vs their rival in the division who has been to 3 Conference championships the last 3 years to support your argument? Thats laughable.

[Oviedo]

okay, here's the million dollar question whenever the talk of getting rid of tomlin comes up....................who do you want to bring in to replace DL?.
who is the sure fire young gun to outperform DL's historically top 5 defense(except last year) for the next decade?
i need names

So let's wait until the 76 yr old dies, and he will, and then react to that tragic event versus having a proactive change over at a time that is best for the organization versus LeBeau. We are in a rebuilding mode on defense. Now is the time to make the change in the Def Coord so we are considering all possible alternatives and options not trying to recreate and capture past glories which is exactly what will happen with LeBeau in charge.

And hoping that Butler is willing to wait forever as the "DC in waiting" is not a plan. Sooner or later he is going to get tired of waiting and want his chance. The let him stay until he dies approach didn't work that well for Penn State and I don't think it will work for us either.

[squidkid]

What??? Are you really trying to use the NFCCG vs their rival in the division who has been to 3 Conference championships the last 3 years to support your argument? Thats laughable.

well, based on that logic DL has never had an offense run right down the filed on them after taking the lead in a nfcc game

[squidkid]

So let's wait until the 76 yr old dies, and he will, and then react to that tragic event versus having a proactive change over at a time that is best for the organization versus LeBeau. We are in a rebuilding mode on defense. Now is the time to make the change in the Def Coord so we are considering all possible alternatives and options not trying to recreate and capture past glories which is exactly what will happen with LeBeau in charge.

And hoping that Butler is willing to wait forever as the "DC in waiting" is not a plan. Sooner or later he is going to get tired of waiting and want his chance. The let him stay until he dies approach didn't work that well for Penn State and I don't think it will work for us either.

i have no problem with a change, including the HC.
i would also like to see our draft picks see the field the first year. the problem i have is thinking that a young guy would be able to come in and have better results than DL has had over a decade. DL's system has proven to be great when quality players were drafted. i believe those player were cowhers picks and tomlins picks havent worked in DL top 5 defensive scheme as well as cowhers.
your logic is to allow tomlin to continue picking mediocre players and get a young gun to play them sooner and see what happens compared to getting rid of tomlin and his poor selections and stay with a proven commodity in DL's 3-4.
risky move. it may pay off but im willing to bet the new guy wont have a top 5 defense over the next decade.

once again, who do you want as DC?