This will not be popular....

[Dee Dub]

Seem to recall the Steelers drafting one of the greatest LBs to ever play the game from a small school way back when in the 2nd round. The professionals had this to say about him: "too small to be a pro football linebacker". The guy went on to 9 straight Pro Bowls and the Hall of Fame.

Exactly!! And actually the Steelers had two great LB's from that small school (Kent State). Those players seem to have a lot to prove.

[Dee Dub]

Mack would not grade out higher than JJ

Really? Considering JJ fell to the 17th pick primarily because of poor work outs (grades), and Mack is being seen as a top 5-10 pick? Ok......

[Dee Dub]

Like I said... I'm happy he got snaps but his stats arent impressive. He didnt do a thing to replace Woodley because he was actually playing decent ball before he went down.

JJ's stats prove my point.... if these are the best stats by a rookie at OLB I hope we throw the old model out because the new CBA doesnt give us the luxury of sitting guys for years before getting some reps.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this D is considered complex by those who play in it.

See, that is what separates you and I. You look at numbers and determine ones worth. I see the fact that Jarvis Jones has done what no other rookie OLB has ever done in the teams 3-4 defense.

Too me that makes his numbers very impressive.

[Dee Dub]

....Whether you want to admit it or not, this D is considered complex by those who play in it.

And you contradict yourself when you post this....

Worlids: "It's frustrating because you know you probably could have helped. When I was coming up, I was told that no matter what I did -- good or bad, no matter how much I improved -- I wasn't going to see the field. That's kind of discouraging. But you have to take it as an opportunity to better yourself in other ways. That's what I was able to do."


feltdizz: What scares me is Lebeau saying he won't change philosophies... with 4 year rookie contracts we have to change. We cant wait until contract years to let players show out.

[URL]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/42143-Rookies-must-know-their-roles-in-complex-D[/URL]

Is it complex or is it a philosophy? Jason Worlids says it did matter what he did.

[birtikidis]

Fair to say Birt. Okay, say we are are up in the early teens, Barr is gone, Mack is Gone, Nix is gone, as well as Mike Evans,.....do you take a Tackle or perhaps Shazier as he would probably be off of the board before our next selection comes around ?

I certainly am not a proponent of taking today's corners in the top half of the first round.

I think at that point we'd have to trade back a few spots. I think we could go a few different directions in the first round. Our offense is finally starting to gel, but that doesn't mean we could get a good receiver. It'd be really hard for me to draft a NT in the top half of the first round. I wouldn't mind trading back a bunch of spots, getting the DT from Pitt and maybe picking up an extra second or third round pick though.
This draft is going to be anyones guess. We have a number of guys that we need to replace. BUT I think we can also get creative with the current roster.
Let Hood walk and put Mclendon at DE.
Wood has looked pretty good. Could be a very good backup ala Hoke
Jones could bump inside if they feel that they can't afford letting Woodley go. Foote could walk in that scenario
Retain Velasco, he should come cheap and bump him to Guard. Let Foster and Gilbert fight out RT and Beachum and Adams fight it out for LT. Beachum and Foster could back up all 5 positions if they lose their position battle. Would be some nice depth on the line.

[birtikidis]

Really? Considering JJ fell to the 17th pick primarily because of poor work outs (grades), and Mack is being seen as a top 5-10 pick? Ok......

I think he meant grade out based on game film.
It seems to me that very few people here put any stock in the combine workouts. I know I don't

[feltdizz]

And you contradict yourself when you post this....

Worlids: "It's frustrating because you know you probably could have helped. When I was coming up, I was told that no matter what I did -- good or bad, no matter how much I improved -- I wasn't going to see the field. That's kind of discouraging. But you have to take it as an opportunity to better yourself in other ways. That's what I was able to do."


feltdizz: What scares me is Lebeau saying he won't change philosophies... with 4 year rookie contracts we have to change. We cant wait until contract years to let players show out.

[URL]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/42143-Rookies-must-know-their-roles-in-cmplex-D[/URL]

Is it complex or is it a philosophy? Jason Worlids says it did matter what he did.

Its both... a complex D and Lebeaus philosophy are 2 different things.

[feltdizz]

See, that is what separates you and I. You look at numbers and determine ones worth. I see the fact that Jarvis Jones has done what no other rookie OLB has ever done in the teams 3-4 defense.

Too me that makes his numbers very impressive.

The difference is I dont care about JJ's numbers vs other rookie OLB's. Its well known that we rarely play rookies early on. I'm not discouraged by JJ's stats. However, his numbers are the exception not the norm.

I find it funny that you believe he should have started over Woodley... he even started a few games before being demoted sue to issues with assignments yet you believe a complex D is an excuse.

How many players, coaches and beat writers need to say this is a complex D for you to see its true. Maybe its an excuse vlbut its used so often I'm pretty sure there is some truth to it. I know its easy for you because you are an expert but the guys coming out of college and must not be as smart as you since they disagree.

When you complain about JJ not getting more snaps that is part of the Lebeau philosophy I have a problem with... I hope we adjust the philosophy of playing young guys AND scale back the playbook so our youth can see the field earlier.

[steelerkeylargo]

Really? Considering JJ fell to the 17th pick primarily because of poor work outs (grades), and Mack is being seen as a top 5-10 pick? Ok......

JJ fell because of the spinal stenosis. Stop being blind. I love Mack but I promise you 80% of Scouts graded JJ higher last year than they will Mack this year. That is not even taking into consideration the level of competition.

[Rod Polamalu]

JJ fell because of the spinal stenosis. Stop being blind. I love Mack but I promise you 80% of Scouts graded JJ higher last year than they will Mack this year. That is not even taking into consideration the level of competition.

Very familiar with Jones, being a Trojan homer now living in Dawg/YellowJacket land. (Atlanta Ga) Yes, the spinal Stenosis kept him from playing at SC and caused him to fall in the draft Largo,...but trust me,.. the said fall was not as considerable as some would like to believe.

Workouts also do factor into the grading process more so than many would like to believe as well. And as far as level of competition,... it goes both ways,...is it really very difficult to look like a defensive stud on an SEC team surrounded by studs beating the snot out of programs like the Citadel ?

Don't get me wrong Jarvis balled in college. However for me personally after watching them both play i would consider Mack the better prospect. The kid is not only physically talented,..but he is a pure football player with passion for the game. Whereas Jones has always come across as the "I'm big and athletic,...might as well plays sports and get paid" type of player.

[hawaiiansteel]

JJ fell because of the spinal stenosis. Stop being blind. I love Mack but I promise you 80% of Scouts graded JJ higher last year than they will Mack this year. That is not even taking into consideration the level of competition.

hey skl,

just curious, how did you come up with having three #4 draft picks in your mock sig?

[Shoe]

Not to mention four nine

JJ fell because of the spinal stenosis. Stop being blind. I love Mack but I promise you 80% of Scouts graded JJ higher last year than they will Mack this year. That is not even taking into consideration the level of competition.

Four seven is on the slow side, but can easily be ignored. Four eight? You certainly have to pause. Four nine? You've got a lot to mull over.

[Rod Polamalu]

Four seven is on the slow side, but can easily be ignored. Four eight? You certainly have to pause. Four nine? You've got a lot to mull over.

Exaaaactly.

[steelerkeylargo]

Very familiar with Jones, being a Trojan homer now living in Dawg/YellowJacket land. (Atlanta Ga) Yes, the spinal Stenosis kept him from playing at SC and caused him to fall in the draft Largo,...but trust me,.. the said fall was not as considerable as some would like to believe.

Workouts also do factor into the grading process more so than many would like to believe as well. And as far as level of competition,... it goes both ways,...is it really very difficult to look like a defensive stud on an SEC team surrounded by studs beating the snot out of programs like the Citadel ?

Don't get me wrong Jarvis balled in college. However for me personally after watching them both play i would consider Mack the better prospect. The kid is not only physically talented,..but he is a pure football player with passion for the game. Whereas Jones has always come across as the "I'm big and athletic,...might as well plays sports and get paid" type of player.

Dude you had us taking Mack in the 2nd round of your mock 2 weeks ago. Stop

[steelerkeylargo]

JJ fell because of the spinal stenosis. Stop being blind. I love Mack but I promise you 80% of Scouts graded JJ higher last year than they will Mack this year. That is not even taking into consideration the level of competition.

We will get comps for Wallace, Lewis and Mendy. Not sure what they will be. Just guesses.