“Defenseless” kicker/punter rule needs to go

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  • Jooser
    Legend
    • Jul 2008
    • 5106

    “Defenseless” kicker/punter rule needs to go

    “Defenseless” kicker/punter rule needs to go

    Posted by Mike Florio on December 19, 2013, 8:03 AM EST
    AP
    The thickness and complexity of the NFL rulebook means that, for most fans, the rules will be learned only when they are applied in a game. Or, as the case may be, when they’re not applied.


    After Steelers linebacker Terence Garvin blew up Bengals punter Kevin Huber on Sunday night but wasn’t flagged, everyone learned that kickers and punters are included within the league’s laundry list of defenseless players. Throughout the down, even during the return.


    Applied as written, the rule prohibits all contact with the head or neck of the punter or kicker, as well as any hits against the punter or kicker with an opponent’s helmet. Applied as written, this includes the ball carrier when using a stiff arm or when dipping his helmet to guard against an otherwise legal helmet-to-helmet hit from the punter or kicker, like the hit Pat McAfee applied to Broncos return specialist Trindon Holliday in October.


    Per a league source, literal application of the rule would indeed prohibit even the ball carrier hitting the punter/kicker in the head. The source explained that, as a practical matter, the NFL would allow contact with the head of the punter/kicker in that situation.


    The distinction between what the rule says and how the rule would be applied undermines the rule and displays its potential absurdity. As written, the player with the ball could never contact the kicker or punter in the head or neck area. If the league would never apply the rule that way, the league needs to consider changing the rule or dumping it.


    It makes far more sense to make punters or kickers defenseless only when they aren’t trying to tackle or impede the runner. The current rule forces men like Garvin to realize — at full speed — that the player to whom he’s about to apply an otherwise clean block is the one player on the field who can’t be hit in the head or neck, even though that player is trying to position himself to tackle or slow down the man with the ball.

    What was Garvin supposed to do? Recognize in the blur of bodies that the body he was about to strike belonged to a man who was wearing an invisible red jersey?

    For all other defenseless players, the circumstances make their protections clears. Quarterback in the pocket. Receiver in the act of catching a ball. Punt returner trying to field a kick.


    Under current rules, the league expects players whose livelihood depends on making blocks to not block one of 11 men a certain way, when the one protected man is otherwise mingling with the rest of his teammates. It’s not realistic, and for a guy like Garvin who is making the minimum salary and will now lose $25,000, it’s not fair.
    [URL]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/19/defenseless-kickerpunter-rule-needs-to-go/[/URL]

    I don't agree often with this knucklehead, but I think this article is spot on.
    ​2019 MNFE CHAMPION
  • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 10287

    #2
    Is this an article by Florio, involving a Steelers angle, where he is not advocating lynching the Steelers player???

    Did I wake up in the Twilight Zone this morning?

    That being said, I agree with the premise of his article. The moment the punter decides to engage into the play, he should be any other player.
    http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

    Comment

    • papillon
      Legend
      • Mar 2008
      • 11340

      #3
      Too vague even if you add the "if the punter decides to play tackle football" to the rule. Then how do you determine if the punter was trying to get involved or not. There are too many of these gray area rules. The punter is playing or he isn't and if he isn't then he needs to punt and get off the field, there's plenty of time to do so while the punt is in the air. If he's going to play, then he's fair game and Garvin's hit is just a good hard block.

      The NFL is trying to make a PhD a requirement to understand the darn game.

      Pappy
      sigpic

      The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

      1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
      3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
      3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
      4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
      5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
      7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

      "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

      Comment

      • JAR
        Pro Bowler
        • May 2008
        • 1620

        #4
        Bungals fans start whining and crying everything Steelers at a very young age.

        After seeing Bengals punter Kevin Huber absorb a devastating hit in Sunday night's loss to thePittsburgh Steelers, one young fan is calling for vengeance.

        The Cincinnati Enquirer notes that seven-year-old Nicholas Andrew Johnson penned a letter to Huber after the punter took a hit from Steelers linebacker Terence Garvin that broke his jaw and possibly cracked a vertebra. Despite the fact that Garvin was fined $25,000for the collision, Johnson isn't satisfied:

        Dear Kevin,
        I hope you feel better soon. I am mad at the Steelers because you are my #1 player. I am 7 years old and love the Bengals and Bearcats. I know you played for the Bearcats and Bengals and I love the teams. I hope that Steeler player loses his house and has to live in his car.
        Get well soon,
        Nicholas Andrew Johnson.

        [URL]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000300739/article/young-bengals-fan-wants-revenge-for-kevin-huber-hit[/URL]

        Comment

        • Slapstick
          Rookie
          • May 2008
          • 0

          #5
          Stay classy, Cincinnati!
          Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

          Comment

          • papillon
            Legend
            • Mar 2008
            • 11340

            #6
            The funny part about all of this is that Huber is taking it like a man. He isn't whining or complaining, only stating it's football.

            Pappy
            sigpic

            The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

            1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
            3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
            3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
            4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
            5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
            7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

            "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

            Comment

            • papillon
              Legend
              • Mar 2008
              • 11340

              #7
              For those of you old enough to remember or for those of you who may have seen the clip of Turkey Jones dumping Terry Bradshaw directly onto his head during a game in the 70s, what do you think his punishment would have been in today's NFL? Man, that was a vicious tackle.



              Pappy
              Last edited by papillon; 12-19-2013, 12:29 PM.
              sigpic

              The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

              1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
              3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
              3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
              4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
              5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
              7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

              "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

              Comment

              • fezziwig
                Hall of Famer
                • Jan 2009
                • 3515

                #8
                They should have the kickers and punters wear red uniforms or better yet, pink uniforms. The game moves too fast at times for a player to recognize at full speed, what player is whom during the course of the action.

                Comment

                • Jooser
                  Legend
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 5106

                  #9
                  If they want them protected, they should kick the ball and run off the field and not be allowed to interfere with the ball carrier at all. It's a bogus concept to protect the kicker once possession changes and the action really starts. If they can't be blocked, then they get their arses off the field.
                  ​2019 MNFE CHAMPION

                  Comment

                  • fezziwig
                    Hall of Famer
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3515

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jooser
                    If they want them protected, they should kick the ball and run off the field and not be allowed to interfere with the ball carrier at all. It's a bogus concept to protect the kicker once possession changes and the action really starts. If they can't be blocked, then they get their arses off the field.
                    Nice.... !

                    Comment

                    • Discipline of Steel
                      Hall of Famer
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 3882

                      #11
                      Originally posted by papillon
                      For those of you old enough to remember or for those of you who may have seen the clip of Turkey Jones dumping Terry Bradshaw directly onto his head during a game in the 70s, what do you think his punishment would have been in today's NFL? Man, that was a vicious tackle.



                      Pappy
                      I dont see anything wrong with that
                      sigpic
                      Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of their women.

                      Comment

                      • pittpete
                        Legend
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 6825

                        #12
                        Show me where this is helmet to helmet?



                        Maybe they should do this
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by pittpete; 12-19-2013, 08:31 PM.
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • fezziwig
                          Hall of Famer
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 3515

                          #13
                          If their punter would have just whiffed as if he was Jeff Reed, he would probably be enjoying a nice thick steak right now.

                          Comment

                          • hawaiiansteel
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 35651

                            #14
                            On the Steelers: So you want to protect the punter?

                            By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
                            December 21, 2013



                            Bengals punter Kevin Huber broke his jaw and will miss the rest of the season after a big hit by Steelers linebacker Terence Garvin.

                            There's nothing wrong with the NFL trying to protect kickers and punters because, as I've long maintained, they are not real football players.

                            Kickers and punters do not block and tackle, for the most part, and compared to other real football players, they're on the field for only a few plays and they do not practice much.

                            One real test to this will come when the voting for the Pro Football Hall of Fame takes place the day before the Super Bowl. Ray Guy is a Seniors candidate and if he makes it, he will be the first punter-only to get into the Hall.

                            While the NFL is right to protect punters and kickers from the kind of abuse Steelers linebacker Terence Garvin laid on Bengals punter Kevin Huber last Sunday, they also need to protect those making those blocks by helping them identify who they're blocking.

                            The block Garvin threw on Huber would have been legal had he thrown it on any of the other 10 Bengals running down on their punt to Antonio Brown. But many times, players on the punt-return team assigned to block do not have time to determine which player is the punter and which they can knock into the second deck.

                            Steelers kicker Shaun Suisham, who has five tackles (25 in his career) and a forced fumble this year, understands both ends of the rule.

                            "It certainly wouldn't be fair if I just kicked off and had my head down and someone was targeting me. I think it's right and fair to be protected in that situation," he said.

                            "But when you interject yourself right into a play, those guys have a job to do. When you have a kicker who is 6 feet, 200 pounds and is the same size as a safety, for a guy to be able to decipher whether he's the kicker or not in a split second is very difficult and potentially unfair."

                            They are permitted to block the punter/kicker, just not viciously. Here is one simple way for players to always know who the punter/kicker is and how not to block him: Outfit the punter/kicker in one of those bright orange vests that deer hunters wear. The way the NFL is always looking for a way to squeeze more money out of its product, it might get Dick's to supply them and pay to sponsor them. In soccer, they make the goalies wear a different-color shirt, why not the kickers and punters in football?

                            Either that, or they could simply have the punter and kicker run directly off the field as soon as they kick the ball. Then they would be nice and safe and the Terence Garvins of the world could do their jobs as they've been taught for their lifetime of playing football.

                            Not only would getting them off the field protect the punters and kickers, it might open up a few more exciting kick and punt returns. Once in a while a punter or kicker gets in the way of a return man to alter his route or slow him down or, once in a great while, make a tackle.

                            The video of former Steelers punter Daniel Sepulveda blowing up a punt returner when he played at Baylor was a classic. So, too, is Indianapolis Colts punter Pat McAfee blasting Denver Broncos return man Trindon Holliday in October. McAfee, a Plum native, hit Holliday so hard that he implied that is why the NFL ordered a steroids test of him the next day. Holliday is 5-5, 169. McAfee is 6-1, 233. The helmet hit was legal, the NFL ruled by not fining McAfee. You can see the hit on YouTube.

                            Does McAfee deserve special attention? Yes, the NFL says, because he is a punter, even if he's out there like everyone else head-hunting.

                            Former NFL lineman Mike Golic of the ESPN's Mike & Mike morning radio show had this to say about it Wednesday morning, according to the Huffington Post:

                            "We've seen punters make tackles before, have we not? They'll push someone out of bounds, they'll throw their body and probably scream like a woman when they do it ... I'm just kidding."

                            He was only kidding about the screaming like a woman part because, well, he has a female audience. He was not kidding about the rest. Golic is old-school but he is on point.

                            Either put an orange vest on them or get them off the field immediately after they kick the ball.

                            [URL]http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2013/12/22/So-you-want-to-protect-the-punter-NO-STRIKE-ZONE-DEFENSELESS-AND-INDEFENSIBLE/stories/201312220067#ixzz2oE7wLAJO[/URL]

                            Comment

                            • Ernie
                              Legend
                              • Aug 2013
                              • 8470

                              #15
                              As long as the punter is eligible to make the tackle, he should not be considered defenseless.. and needs to be blocked.

                              Comment

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