Doesn't it seems like Tomlin

[feltdizz]

It is indeed equal opportunity bashing. I'm not owner, GM or coach...just an irritated fan. I will express my frustration by asking for the heads of those in charge. I will question the decision making. That is my right as a paying fan who supports his team in many ways including financially.

As for Tomlin, you state its all the same Tomlin and Cowher. But, Cowher inherited an underperforming lack luster Noll team that hadn't done squat in years. Cowher recognized the need for a fresh start...in one year with his own staff completely turned the franchise around. Tomlin inherited a SB winning team...with SB winning players coached by SB winning assistant coaches. And it's the same? I'm just supposed to believe Tomlin was a big part of that? Nah, not buying it. Certainly don't see the similarity. Tomlin went along for the ride, didn't make changes and inherited a SB team. I believe I could have coached them to another SB.

Tomlin has a SB win and another appearance... and he his winning percentage was pretty impressive before this 0-4 start. If Tomlin went along for the ride he did a pretty good job IMO.

Time should tell if he has it in him to right the ship. You make it sound like Tomlin squandered Cowher's "team" once he took over.

Cowher didn't even make the playoff's in 2006. What has he done to prove he has any fire or hunger left? He had a chance for back to backs and he mailed it in.

[Slapstick]

That's not true. In the SB of 95 only 3 defensive players were left from Noll's era. That's Cowher's 4th season. In Tomlin's 5th season he still had 8 of 11 defensive players from Cowher's era. Cowher didn't miss the playoffs until 3 seasons later. Cowher rebuilt almost the entire defense BEFORE he made his first SB. Almost nobody is left from Noll's teams after the SB of 95. And they still make the playoffs the next 2 years. Then for the next 3 years the drafts suck. There is a huge issue with Cowher and Donahoe. Donahoe drafts Edwards over Cowher's objections and Cowher offers his resignation. Rooney allows Cowher more power and fires Donahoe.

On the defensive side of the ball, he had Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson...that's two All Pros and a Hall of Famer...

On the offensive side? Another Hall of Fame player...all Noll's...

Tomlin also won a SB and went to another before the decline...

[feltdizz]

On the defensive side of the ball, he had Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson...that's two All Pros and a Hall of Famer...

On the offensive side? Another Hall of Fame player...all Noll's...

Tomlin also won a SB and went to another before the decline...

They act like Tomlin hasn't won anything...

oh wait, he hasn't this year so the team is all his now. LOL

[steelz09]

Tomlin has a SB win and another appearance... and he his winning percentage was pretty impressive before this 0-4 start. If Tomlin went along for the ride he did a pretty good job IMO.

Time should tell if he has it in him to right the ship. You make it sound like Tomlin squandered Cowher's "team" once he took over.

Cowher didn't even make the playoff's in 2006. What has he done to prove he has any fire or hunger left? He had a chance for back to backs and he mailed it in.

That's right. How could I forget. Before the season, his franchise QB thought it was a good idea to drive a sport bike without a helmet and almost died from implanting his face into someones windshield.

[Slapstick]

That's right. How could I forget. Before the season, his franchise QB thought it was a good idea to drive a sport bike without a helmet and almost died from implanting his face into someones windshield.

Then why flame Tomlin for last year when his QB held onto the ball and got sandwiched, suffering a reportedly life threatening rib injury?

[flippy]

Then why flame Tomlin for last year when his QB held onto the ball and got sandwiched, suffering a reportedly life threatening rib injury?

Because the company line was they got rid of BA (or BA retired) to protect Ben. Tomlin hired Haley (or Art II hired Haley) and he was supposed to keep Ben clean. The result was as much pressure on the QB as we had ever seen. And it lead to the injury.

So 1 of 2 things. Tomlin is accountable for Haley. Or he didn't have enough control to keep BA like he wanted.

I do think a fair question is how much control does Tomlin have? Is ownership and the front office hamstringing him from performing as well as he could if he had more control? It's not often that a coaching staff is forced onto a guy. And even when he replaced some coaches, how much say did he have? And how many of these guys he brought in worked out well?

And if he doesn't have control over the coaches, does he have control over the players?

I like Tomlin. I like his approach. But I wonder how responsible he is/isn't. From the outside, it seems impossible to know who's at fault for some of this stuff. We'll never know. But the pulbic needs a scapegoat. It's human nature. And all that really matters is how much Rooney holds Tomlin accountable.

And at the end of the day, Art may not be as patient as his old man. It feels like we could be under unchartered leadership from the owners box and anything could happen?

[Steelhere10]

On the defensive side of the ball, he had Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson...that's two All Pros and a Hall of Famer...

On the offensive side? Another Hall of Fame player...all Noll's...

Tomlin also won a SB and went to another before the decline...

You forgot Hardy Nickerson if I'm not mistaken another Allpro

[Slapstick]

You forgot Hardy Nickerson if I'm not mistaken another Allpro

Hardy left the season after Cowher took over and didn't earn any All Pro accolades until 1993...

[papillon]

Because the company line was they got rid of BA (or BA retired) to protect Ben. Tomlin hired Haley (or Art II hired Haley) and he was supposed to keep Ben clean. The result was as much pressure on the QB as we had ever seen. And it lead to the injury.

So 1 of 2 things. Tomlin is accountable for Haley. Or he didn't have enough control to keep BA like he wanted.

I do think a fair question is how much control does Tomlin have? Is ownership and the front office hamstringing him from performing as well as he could if he had more control? It's not often that a coaching staff is forced onto a guy. And even when he replaced some coaches, how much say did he have? And how many of these guys he brought in worked out well?

And if he doesn't have control over the coaches, does he have control over the players?

I like Tomlin. I like his approach. But I wonder how responsible he is/isn't. From the outside, it seems impossible to know who's at fault for some of this stuff. We'll never know. But the pulbic needs a scapegoat. It's human nature. And all that really matters is how much Rooney holds Tomlin accountable.

And at the end of the day, Art may not be as patient as his old man. It feels like we could be under unchartered leadership from the owners box and anything could happen?

From the outside based exclusively on how the Bruce Arians release/retirement party was handled you have to believe that Mike Tomlin has very little say in anything other than day-to-day football Xs and Os. When it comes to personnel you have to think that the Rooneys and Colbert are the 500 pound gorillas in the room.

At least, that's my take, since Tomlin says Arians is staying, then he's retiring and shortly after he retires he's hired by the Colts, does a good job as an interim head coach and gets the Arizona gig.

Pappy

[Vader]

On the defensive side of the ball, he had Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson...that's two All Pros and a Hall of Famer...

On the offensive side? Another Hall of Fame player...all Noll's...

Tomlin also won a SB and went to another before the decline...

This is total BS. What year did Dawson make his first pro-bowl? I'll help you out. It was 1992. How about Lake? He didn't make a pro-bowl until 1994. Woodson didn't even play the entire year they went to the SB. FACT is that Cowher had 3 players left from Noll on defense in his 4th season. Tomlin had 8 of 11 in his FIFTH season. You can spin it anyway you want but that's the fact. As Cowher's players retire the team gets worse. Tomlin inherited 5 pro-bowlers and 1 possible HOFers on offense and 5 pro-bowlers and at least 1 HOFer on defense. Not only the quality but the quantity was in Tomlin's favor.

[Slapstick]

This is total BS. What year did Dawson make his first pro-bowl? I'll help you out. It was 1992. How about Lake? He didn't make a pro-bowl until 1994. Woodson didn't even play the entire year they went to the SB. FACT is that Cowher had 3 players left from Noll on defense in his 4th season. Tomlin had 8 of 11 in his FIFTH season. You can spin it anyway you want but that's the fact. As Cowher's players retire the team gets worse. Tomlin inherited 5 pro-bowlers and 1 possible HOFers on offense and 5 pro-bowlers and at least 1 HOFer on defense. Not only the quality but the quantity was in Tomlin's favor.

Which is why Tomlin won 60+ regular season games and a SB in his first six seasons...

I'm not spinning anything, I'm merely stating the fact that Cowher's proverbial cupboard was not bare when he took over the team and, when the team started to lose the talent that Cowher inherited, there was a rebuilding phase where players like Joey Porter, Aaron Smith and Hines Ward were added...

[steelz09]

This is total BS. What year did Dawson make his first pro-bowl? I'll help you out. It was 1992. How about Lake? He didn't make a pro-bowl until 1994. Woodson didn't even play the entire year they went to the SB. FACT is that Cowher had 3 players left from Noll on defense in his 4th season. Tomlin had 8 of 11 in his FIFTH season. You can spin it anyway you want but that's the fact. As Cowher's players retire the team gets worse. Tomlin inherited 5 pro-bowlers and 1 possible HOFers on offense and 5 pro-bowlers and at least 1 HOFer on defense. Not only the quality but the quantity was in Tomlin's favor.

Several of us have tried to explain such things but as the old saying goes....

You can lead the horse to water but cant force it to drink. The people that continue to bury their head in the sand are the horses that would be willingly dying of dehydration when the water is right in front of them. Maybe that's not as good as the "Defending every blade of grass" comment but I tried...

[Slapstick]

Several of us have tried to explain such things but as the old saying goes....

You can lead the horse to water but cant force it to drink. The people that continue to bury their head in the sand are the horses that would be willingly dying of dehydration when the water is right in front of them. Maybe that's not as good as the "Defending every blade of grass" comment but I tried...

You can tell me it's water, but if I know it's pee-pee, then I'll pass until some real water comes along...

[feltdizz]

Several of us have tried to explain such things but as the old saying goes....

You can lead the horse to water but cant force it to drink. The people that continue to bury their head in the sand are the horses that would be willingly dying of dehydration when the water is right in front of them. Maybe that's not as good as the "Defending every blade of grass" comment but I tried...

try less harder because that was awful...

[steelz09]

try less harder because that was awful...

Not many people can be more Cliche than Coach Cliche himself.