Jaworski ranks Flacco and Ryan better than Ben???

[DBR96A]

has ben ever had even 1 of those type of guys as good as jones or white at WR ever?

Quite frankly, there's been no position on the Steelers more overrated in the last decade than WR.

Hines Ward was on the downside of his career by the time Roethlisberger entered his prime. Plaxico Burress left after Roethlisberger's rookie season and didn't come back until last season, well past his prime. Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace both made big plays, but neither were consistent, nor did either of them have their priorities straight. (For that matter, Holmes only has one 1,000-yard receiving season in his career, and he's never even led the Jets in receiving yards in a season. He was tremendously overrated.) Antwaan Randle El was brilliant one moment and moronic the next. Emmanuel Sanders can't seem to stay healthy. Even Antonio Brown, much as I like him, was guilty of multiple costly, bonehead plays last season. Nate Washington was decent but nothing special, and Jerricho Cotchery fits that description now. Cedrick Wilson was just a body. Limas Sweed was a head case. These are all the WRs that Roethlisberger has had since he entered the league. As a whole, they haven't been as good as most Steeler fans or Roethlisberger critics pretend they have.

In short, Hines Ward is the only legit WR that Roethlisberger has ever had -- and even then, he was at the end of his prime during Roethlisberger's first few years, and past his prime the moment Roethlisberger entered his.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Quite frankly, there's been no position on the Steelers more overrated in the last decade than WR.

Hines Ward was on the downside of his career by the time Roethlisberger entered his prime. Plaxico Burress left after Roethlisberger's rookie season and didn't come back until last season, well past his prime. Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace both made big plays, but neither were consistent, nor did either of them have their priorities straight. (For that matter, Holmes only has one 1,000-yard receiving season in his career, and he's never even led the Jets in receiving yards in a season. He was tremendously overrated.) Antwaan Randle El was brilliant one moment and moronic the next. Emmanuel Sanders can't seem to stay healthy. Even Antonio Brown, much as I like him, was guilty of multiple costly, bonehead plays last season. Nate Washington was decent but nothing special, and Jerricho Cotchery fits that description now. Cedrick Wilson was just a body. Limas Sweed was a head case. These are all the WRs that Roethlisberger has had since he entered the league. As a whole, they haven't been as good as most Steeler fans or Roethlisberger critics pretend they have.

In short, Hines Ward is the only legit WR that Roethlisberger has ever had -- and even then, he was at the end of his prime during Roethlisberger's first few years, and past his prime the moment Roethlisberger entered his.

The weapons can generally only be as good as the QB that gets them the football. An offense can generally only be as good as the QB that leads it. Ben's had good enough weapons to be more successful then he has been. Ben's was his own worst enemy over the years by wanting to do things his way. The Steelers offense hasn't lived up to it's scoring potential because of Ben's inconsistent style of play and injuries. Ben's inconsistent style of play lead to many of Ben's injuries.

[NJ-STEELER]

Quite frankly, there's been no position on the Steelers more overrated in the last decade than WR.

Hines Ward was on the downside of his career by the time Roethlisberger entered his prime. Plaxico Burress left after Roethlisberger's rookie season and didn't come back until last season, well past his prime. Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace both made big plays, but neither were consistent, nor did either of them have their priorities straight. (For that matter, Holmes only has one 1,000-yard receiving season in his career, and he's never even led the Jets in receiving yards in a season. He was tremendously overrated.) Antwaan Randle El was brilliant one moment and moronic the next. Emmanuel Sanders can't seem to stay healthy. Even Antonio Brown, much as I like him, was guilty of multiple costly, bonehead plays last season. Nate Washington was decent but nothing special, and Jerricho Cotchery fits that description now. Cedrick Wilson was just a body. Limas Sweed was a head case. These are all the WRs that Roethlisberger has had since he entered the league. As a whole, they haven't been as good as most Steeler fans or Roethlisberger critics pretend they have.

In short, Hines Ward is the only legit WR that Roethlisberger has ever had -- and even then, he was at the end of his prime during Roethlisberger's first few years, and past his prime the moment Roethlisberger entered his.

you forgot lee mays... lol

that list is why i laugh when people complain we dont have a good offense over the years. even the running back position wasnt very good (i liked parker but half the posters on these boards bitched about him). they tried to remedy it by taking mendy in the 1st round but he turned out to be a giant Pu$$y

[Captain QB]

The weapons can generally only be as good as the QB that gets them the football. An offense can generally only be as good as the QB that leads it. Ben's had good enough weapons to be more successful then he has been. Ben's was his own worst enemy over the years by wanting to do things his way. The Steelers offense hasn't lived up to it's scoring potential because of Ben's inconsistent style of play and injuries. Ben's inconsistent style of play lead to many of Ben's injuries.

So it's Ben's fault the WRs drop catchable balls? "Ben's way" is the reason the Steelers are the six-time super bowl champions instead of four-time. You're badly overrating some of these receivers.

As for why the offense hasn't been as good over the years - look at where the Steelers have spent most of their money. Defense. Unfortunately, some of these guys are past their primes now and it has given the Steelers cap issues, thus making it hard to keep younger guys on either side of the ball.

The truth of the matter is the Steelers have signed some of their vets on defense to bad contracts and have done a poor job in developing younger guys to eventually take their place. It's been hurting them on both sides of the ball.

[feltdizz]

The weapons can generally only be as good as the QB that gets them the football. An offense can generally only be as good as the QB that leads it. Ben's had good enough weapons to be more successful then he has been. Ben's was his own worst enemy over the years by wanting to do things his way. The Steelers offense hasn't lived up to it's scoring potential because of Ben's inconsistent style of play and injuries. Ben's inconsistent style of play lead to many of Ben's injuries.

I agree on the injuries but ummm... we have been to 3 SB's and won 2. Some people make it sound like Ben could never lose if he just played up to his potential. He's good but I don't think our record would be much different if he played a better style of ball. We may have better stats and maybe win 2 or 3 more games but I think random acts from the football Gods would balance out any improvements. Penalties, fumbles, blown coverage and the awesome 4th quarter D collapse did a GREAT job losing games when Ben played lights out.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

The weapons can generally only be as good as the QB that gets them the football. An offense can generally only be as good as the QB that leads it. Ben's had good enough weapons to be more successful then he has been. Ben's was his own worst enemy over the years by wanting to do things his way. The Steelers offense hasn't lived up to it's scoring potential because of Ben's inconsistent style of play and injuries. Ben's inconsistent style of play lead to many of Ben's injuries.

Can you show me a QB who has done more than Ben with less? Who else has won two and made it to one more? Take a look at the rest of the football team that Ben has had throughout the course of his career, correct me if I'm wrong:

Defense - one of the best in the league
O line - Good early on in his career, but awful for the most part
Running game - Also pretty good early, but poor since Parker deteriorated
Receivers/TE - Ward was good up until a couple of years ago, a good year and a half from Wallace, Brown has been decent, Miller solid throughout, and some brief but good play from Holmes, but otherwise a sub par group as a whole

Now I can name you several QBs who are considered top players who have done less with more:

Rivers - Had a pretty good D and OL throughout, but also had superior RBs beginning with one of the best, and WRs/TE play including VJax and Gates. On top of all of that, he has played in one of the least competitive divisions in the league for the most part, so his path to success was very easy.

Romo - Has had a revolving door of good receivers through the years. He has had a good TE. He has generally had a good D and OL. Some solid RBshave gone through there as well, and if he can stay healthy, Murray may be the best of them.

Ryan - Maybe the best two WR/ 1 TE combo in the league today. Everything about what they been putting together over the past few years has the Steelers beat except for the D that Pittsburgh has fielded for the most part.

The only three QBs who I would say have overachieved despite less than stellar talent around them are Brady, Eli, and Ben.

[flippy]

Can you show me a QB who has done more than Ben with less?

I think Ben and Brady are the 2 QBs that seem to play well no matter the WR talent. A lot of others have a lot more support and do a lot less.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Can you show me a QB who has done more than Ben with less? Who else has won two and made it to one more? Take a look at the rest of the football team that Ben has had throughout the course of his career, correct me if I'm wrong:

Defense - one of the best in the league
O line - Good early on in his career, but awful for the most part
Running game - Also pretty good early, but poor since Parker deteriorated
Receivers/TE - Ward was good up until a couple of years ago, a good year and a half from Wallace, Brown has been decent, Miller solid throughout, and some brief but good play from Holmes, but otherwise a sub par group as a whole

Now I can name you several QBs who are considered top players who have done less with more:

Rivers - Had a pretty good D and OL throughout, but also had superior RBs beginning with one of the best, and WRs/TE play including VJax and Gates. On top of all of that, he has played in one of the least competitive divisions in the league for the most part, so his path to success was very easy.

Romo - Has had a revolving door of good receivers through the years. He has had a good TE. He has generally had a good D and OL. Some solid RBshave gone through there as well, and if he can stay healthy, Murray may be the best of them.

Ryan - Maybe the best two WR/ 1 TE combo in the league today. Everything about what they been putting together over the past few years has the Steelers beat except for the D that Pittsburgh has fielded for the most part.

The only three QBs who I would say have overachieved despite less than stellar talent around them are Brady, Eli, and Ben.

Pointless to debate, "show me a QB who has done more then Ben with less." I believe that Ben had good enough players around him to be more successful. Considering Ben's talent the Steelers offense underachieved with him as the QB.

[Shoe]

Jaws' job is to get hits and promote discussion (to get more hits). I wouldn't ever get too concerned about who rates who where. Teams get to play games and then playoffs to see who's the champ.

That's not necessarily true. That might be a traditional "media" requirement (get hits), but I don't think that applies here. The thing people neglect to realize is that rankings aren't as cut/dried as they seem. The difference between #1 and let's say #3, is paper thin. After that, there is a slight separation where you can rank the next four or five, any way you see fit. It doesn't mean #4 is 4x better than #8 or anything like that. All it means is that the person doing the ranking prefers one over another, in a very subjective way.

[Captain QB]

Pointless to debate, "show me a QB who has done more then Ben with less." I believe that Ben had good enough players around him to be more successful. Considering Ben's talent the Steelers offense underachieved with him as the QB.

Translation: BLAME THE QB FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

Compared to what QBs like Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees have had around them - no, Ben hasn't had anything like that. And all those QBs have one fewer ring than Ben. You are overrating some of the players the Steelers have had on offense.

Did you ever think that maybe the Steelers offense hasn't been as good as we wish because the Steelers spend more money on defense?

[NJ-STEELER]

Can you show me a QB who has done more than Ben with less? Who else has won two and made it to one more? Take a look at the rest of the football team that Ben has had throughout the course of his career, correct me if I'm wrong:

Defense - one of the best in the league
O line - Good early on in his career, but awful for the most part
Running game - Also pretty good early, but poor since Parker deteriorated
Receivers/TE - Ward was good up until a couple of years ago, a good year and a half from Wallace, Brown has been decent, Miller solid throughout, and some brief but good play from Holmes, but otherwise a sub par group as a whole

Now I can name you several QBs who are considered top players who have done less with more:

Rivers - Had a pretty good D and OL throughout, but also had superior RBs beginning with one of the best, and WRs/TE play including VJax and Gates. On top of all of that, he has played in one of the least competitive divisions in the league for the most part, so his path to success was very easy.

Romo - Has had a revolving door of good receivers through the years. He has had a good TE. He has generally had a good D and OL. Some solid RBshave gone through there as well, and if he can stay healthy, Murray may be the best of them.

Ryan - Maybe the best two WR/ 1 TE combo in the league today. Everything about what they been putting together over the past few years has the Steelers beat except for the D that Pittsburgh has fielded for the most part.

The only three QBs who I would say have overachieved despite less than stellar talent around them are Brady, Eli, and Ben.

i wouldnt even put eli in there.

going into their 2nd years (and without a 1st round pick cause they traded it to move up to get eli) they signed Ben's big target in plax. signed an OT to protect him and their backs and receivers have been much better over the years

[NJ-STEELER]

i mean just look at this year. how many other groups of starting WR and RB would you take in front of

a. brown, sanders and 2nd round pick Bell?? 25 at least?

i asked this on another board and at most we came up with (maybe) 7 teams with only a couple being definitely worse (jets were one)

even the lowly jags have drew, blackmon and shorts as their starters

[flippy]

i mean just look at this year. how many other groups of starting WR and RB would you take in front of

a. brown, sanders and 2nd round pick Bell?? 25 at least?

i asked this on another board and at most we came up with (maybe) 7 teams with only a couple being definitely worse (jets were one)

even the lowly jags have drew, blackmon and shorts as their starters

i'm not even sure the jets are definitely worse. we're completely unproven.

[Vader]

In my opinion this is a drafting issue. The past few years have been very unimpressive especially in the first round. Hood and Mendy come to mind. The Steelers have tried to draft to fill holes but their drafts have been average at best.

[DBR96A]

In my opinion this is a drafting issue. The past few years have been very unimpressive especially in the first round. Hood and Mendy come to mind. The Steelers have tried to draft to fill holes but their drafts have been average at best.

Like Roethlisberger, our recent drafts are underrated. I have no complaints at all with the 2007, 2010 or 2011 drafts. If a team can find two solid starters and a solid backup in a draft, then they've done well. As for the 2009 draft, the Steelers at least got some value out of it before Mike Wallace and Keenan Lewis left, and I'm predicting that the light will turn on for Ziggy Hood this season just as it did for Lawrence Timmons in 2010. The only bad draft was 2008, but even the best teams have them from time to time. Wanna get some good laughs at other teams' expense? Take a look at the Ravens' 2004 draft, and the Patriots' 2007 draft. Then there's the Packers, who had the fifth draft pick in 2006 and used it to select... A.J. Hawk. What a great value he was at that draft position, no?