Will Jarvis Jones win the competition vs. Worlids for starter @ OLB

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  • Captain Lemming
    Legend
    • Jun 2008
    • 16041

    #61
    Originally posted by Oviedo
    Or perhaps Jones can rush the passer in other ways than just a "bull rush" using speed and agility. Harrison's technique is probably a contributing reason his back problems. IMO a "speed rush" can be more disruptive than just pushing the OT in a straight line towards the QB.
    Exactly.
    Who needs to as strong as JH when you can use your renowned 4.8 sprinter speed to beat a blocker.
    sigpic



    In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

    TCFCLTC-
    The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

    Comment

    • flippy
      Legend
      • Dec 2008
      • 17088

      #62
      Originally posted by Captain Lemming
      Exactly.
      Who needs to as strong as JH when you can use your renowned 4.8 sprinter speed to beat a blocker.
      We've gotta collapse the interior of the pocket or no one's getting an angle to the QB. I think McClendon's play is more important that our LBs for success this year.
      sigpic

      Comment

      • hawaiiansteel
        Legend
        • May 2008
        • 35649

        #63
        Whether Jarvis Jones starts for the Steelers is irrelevant; variety and depth key for Steelers' front seven

        By Neal Coolong on Jul 1 2013



        Using both rookie Jarvis Jones and veteran Jason Worilds seems inevitable for the Steelers' defense, and whichever one starts won't make a difference.

        Len Pasquarelli recently ran with the notion of Steelers rookie outside linebacker Jarvis Jones getting the starting nod, mostly based on the idea of Jones being a "pure" outside linebacker, unlike Jason Worilds and LaMarr Woodley and many others - converted college defensive ends drafted much lower than the 17th overall pick.

        Is this a question of his familiarity with starting a play on two feet instead of a three-point stance?

        The height of the developmental ceilings for Jones and Worilds (the main competitors for the Steelers' starting right outside linebacker position) is something that can be debated, likely with Jones getting an advantage, but let's not dismiss the simple notion of using multiple players.

        Just not at the same time.

        If Worilds is clearly inferior to Jones athletically but holds an advantage in understanding the defense, and Jones has clear physical ability but his knowledge of the outside linebacker position comes from simpler college schemes, then why can't they be used in "situational football," as Steelers coach Mike Tomlin often says?

        It's easy to paint what will likely be the most often-discussed position battle this training camp as being as simple as Worilds vs. Jones, but this seems more like "Tomlin/Dick LeBeau/Keith Butler vs. The Game of Football." Put the head coach, defensive coordinator and linebackers coach in a lab for an offseason, and see what kinds of packages they can create to put both of them on the field at the same time.

        It doesn't seem to make sense that Worilds is so easily replaceable that his snap count can be dropped to Steve McLendon-in-2012 levels, while Jones simply takes over. Jones is a relentless pass rusher with underrated coverage skills. Add in the pass rush ability of McLendon (another quiet weapon for the Steelers this year), the Steelers very well could take on a look like the San Francisco 49ers -- lots of different looks with many of them out of a nickel package, counting on pressure from different combinations of 2-4 looks.

        If that's the first play of the game, thus anointing Jones a "starter," then so be it. It seems more likely the Steelers will go deeper in their front seven than they have in recent years, and Jones and Worilds will certainly both be a part of that plan.

        [URL]http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/7/1/4482158/steelers-depth-chart-jarvis-jones-jason-worilds-outside-linebacker[/URL]

        Comment

        • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
          Hall of Famer
          • May 2008
          • 3937

          #64
          Here's my thought. I HOPE Worilds lives up to expectations. I HOPE Jones is as advertised and they find a way to get him on the field. That would be "best case" scenario. That would be a win-win. I don't think Jones will have enough playing strength to beat out Worilds as a starter but I do think he will show enough to get on the field in sub packages.

          Nickel
          Woodley-Hood-Keisel-Jones
          Timmons-Worilds
          Taylor-Allen-Polamalu-Clark-Gay

          Dime
          Woodley-Keisel-Jones
          Timmons-Worilds
          Taylor-Allen-Polamalu-Clark-(DVD,Brown,Golden, or Hawthorne)-Gay

          Comment

          • flippy
            Legend
            • Dec 2008
            • 17088

            #65
            Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
            Here's my thought. I HOPE Worilds lives up to expectations. I HOPE Jones is as advertised and they find a way to get him on the field. That would be "best case" scenario. That would be a win-win. I don't think Jones will have enough playing strength to beat out Worilds as a starter but I do think he will show enough to get on the field in sub packages.

            Nickel
            Woodley-Hood-Keisel-Jones
            Timmons-Worilds
            Taylor-Allen-Polamalu-Clark-Gay

            Dime
            Woodley-Keisel-Jones
            Timmons-Worilds
            Taylor-Allen-Polamalu-Clark-(DVD,Brown,Golden, or Hawthorne)-Gay
            With the league being so pass heavy, I would like to see what Shark could do as the LB next to Timmy in the nickle and dime. Most of those plays are likely going to be passes anyway, so why not have an ILB that can cover and run with anyone?
            sigpic

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            • RuthlessBurgher
              Legend
              • May 2008
              • 33208

              #66
              Originally posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o.
              For a relatively short period of time, he was one of the greatest 3-4 OLBs ever.
              Just imagine if it wasn't (seemingly) legal for OTA's to get him in a headlock every time he trying to get around them on the edge.
              Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

              Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

              We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

              We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

              Comment

              • Captain Lemming
                Legend
                • Jun 2008
                • 16041

                #67
                Originally posted by flippy
                We've gotta collapse the interior of the pocket or no one's getting an angle to the QB. I think McClendon's play is more important that our LBs for success this year.
                McClendon can be the next Haloti and he aint keeping a tackle from engaging Jones on the outside.
                sigpic



                In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                TCFCLTC-
                The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                Comment

                • RuthlessBurgher
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 33208

                  #68
                  Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                  Here's my thought. I HOPE Worilds lives up to expectations. I HOPE Jones is as advertised and they find a way to get him on the field. That would be "best case" scenario. That would be a win-win. I don't think Jones will have enough playing strength to beat out Worilds as a starter but I do think he will show enough to get on the field in sub packages.

                  Nickel
                  Woodley-Hood-Keisel-Jones
                  Timmons-Worilds
                  Taylor-Allen-Polamalu-Clark-Gay

                  Dime
                  Woodley-Keisel-Jones
                  Timmons-Worilds
                  Taylor-Allen-Polamalu-Clark-(DVD,Brown,Golden, or Hawthorne)-Gay
                  At Keisel's age, I don't see him being used in the base 3-4 and the nickel and the dime. We'll see more of Heyward rotating in this year than in the past to keep him fresh. McLendon also has a better chance of playing in specialty defenses than Hampton did, because they are different types of NT's.
                  Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                  Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                  We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                  We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                  Comment

                  • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                    Hall of Famer
                    • May 2008
                    • 3937

                    #69
                    Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher
                    At Keisel's age, I don't see him being used in the base 3-4 and the nickel and the dime. We'll see more of Heyward rotating in this year than in the past to keep him fresh. McLendon also has a better chance of playing in specialty defenses than Hampton did, because they are different types of NT's.


                    Agree 100% about Keisel but it will be by series rotation not sub packages imo. Meaning, Keisel will start and be the base & rush DL in nickel & dime. When Heyward rotates into a series, he will be base & rush DL in his series. That is really the best way to get rotation work. The only way I see Keisel not being on the field in subs is if he dropped off. I didn't see it last year but this is a new season.

                    I agree Mclendon can play in subs. We saw him last year in subs when teams went 2 minute. He definitely gives the DL more flexibility.

                    Comment

                    • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
                      Legend
                      • May 2008
                      • 10281

                      #70
                      Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher
                      Just imagine if it wasn't (seemingly) legal for OTA's to get him in a headlock every time he trying to get around them on the edge.
                      For awhile he was a truly awesome force on every play. Either he was hogtied or making a play in the backfield on the QB or the ball carrier.
                      http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

                      Comment

                      • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
                        Legend
                        • May 2008
                        • 10281

                        #71
                        Originally posted by Captain Lemming
                        McClendon can be the next Haloti and he aint keeping a tackle from engaging Jones on the outside.
                        If McClendon can be that dominant then everyone on the D benefits. He would free up Timmons and Foote to make plays which shifts offensive blocking focus inside as well as giving the QB happy feet - and all that makes life easier for the rush backers. This is why Hampton was always so underrated. He made it all work. He collapsed the pocket, he freed up linebackers. More so in the past, but the entire 3-4 concept begins with the NT. He was the anchor for many years - and all this with a grand total of 9 career sacks, 4 career forced fumbles, and never more than 43 combined tackles in a season.
                        http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

                        Comment

                        • hawaiiansteel
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 35649

                          #72
                          Worilds of Difference Expected in 2013

                          By Mike Prisuta
                          SteelCityInsider.net
                          Posted Jul 2, 2013



                          The Steelers are minus three starters from a season ago, but the defensive questions as they relate to the starting 11 mostly revolve around just one guy.

                          And that guy isn’t Cortez Allen or Steve McLendon.

                          “James (Harrison) and ‘Hamp’ (Casey Hampton), those guys were here for a long time, a big reason why we were able to add to the Lombardi room upstairs,” Brett Keisel said this spring. “Their presence is going to be missed. But it’s an opportunity, and these guys like Jason (Worilds) and Steve, that’s what they’ve got, an opportunity. They have big shoes to fill, but obviously (the coaches) feel like they can carry the load.”

                          Keisel didn’t even address Allen taking over for Keenan Lewis at cornerback, probably because the faith in Allen’s ability is widespread on the South Side, and because Lewis’ breakout season as a starter last season was so surprising.

                          There’s also widespread optimism regarding McLendon taking over on the nose, but Hampton was so good and so important for so long that his successor simply cannot be rubber-stamped as the next big thing in the middle.

                          McLendon, like Allen, has shown some nice flashes in relatively limited action, but both are going to have to establish that they’re consistently up to the challenge.

                          Worilds is going to have to first prove that he’s worthy as a replacement for James Harrison, and then prove it on a week-to-week basis. And Worilds has yet to do either in three seasons with the Steelers.

                          His career to this juncture has been characterized mostly by either injury, indifference or both. Worilds has also shown some nice flashes with 8 sacks in 10 career starts.

                          But even as he was flashing last season, he was likewise exasperating. Worilds had 5 of his sacks in 2012, but accounted for just 4 special-teams tackles.

                          He gets first shot at Harrison’s job not because Worilds has established through his search-and-destroy play in the kicking game that the Steelers simply have to get him on the field somewhere, but because he’s the best option available at present.

                          Of course, that situation is subject to change after the drafting of Jarvis Jones in the first round in April.

                          Off-the-record expectations expressed during the spring sessions assessed that upcoming position battle thusly:

                          * If Worilds consistently plays the way the Steelers believe he’s capable of playing, he’ll start all season.

                          * If Worilds plays the way he has in his first three seasons, Jones will be starting after the bye week.

                          The examples established by two of Worilds’ teammates last season could prove influential, providing Worilds has been paying attention.

                          Lewis was in pretty much the same position last season, that of an underachiever who had yet to live up to the post-draft hype and expectation entering the last year of his contract. But Lewis embraced the opportunity that came his way and played well enough to get paid.

                          And Harrison didn’t become a full-time starter until 2007, his fourth full season with the team and the season in which linebackers Lawrence Timmons and LaMarr Woodley had been drafted in the first and second rounds.

                          That latter example has been relayed to Worilds repeatedly by Larry Foote.

                          “I told him I remember when Joey Porter left and they went out and drafted Lawrence Timmons,” Foote said. “Initially, they drafted him to be an outside linebacker. They overlooked James Harrison. They didn’t know what he could do, he hadn’t played that much.

                          “James stepped in that first year and took off and he wasn’t looking back. I told (Worilds), ‘That’s gotta be your same approach.’”

                          That’s gotta be Worilds’ approach because Harrison has to be replaced by someone, and because that has to happen before Woodley can become Woodley once again after amassing one fewer sack (four) than Worilds in 2012.

                          Other than all of that, it’s business as usual for the Steelers at outside linebacker.

                          A Worilds of difference, indeed.

                          [URL]http://pit.scout.com/2/1304452.html[/URL]

                          Comment

                          • Oviedo
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 23824

                            #73
                            Originally posted by hawaiiansteel
                            Worilds of Difference Expected in 2013

                            By Mike Prisuta
                            SteelCityInsider.net
                            Posted Jul 2, 2013



                            The Steelers are minus three starters from a season ago, but the defensive questions as they relate to the starting 11 mostly revolve around just one guy.

                            And that guy isn’t Cortez Allen or Steve McLendon.

                            “James (Harrison) and ‘Hamp’ (Casey Hampton), those guys were here for a long time, a big reason why we were able to add to the Lombardi room upstairs,” Brett Keisel said this spring. “Their presence is going to be missed. But it’s an opportunity, and these guys like Jason (Worilds) and Steve, that’s what they’ve got, an opportunity. They have big shoes to fill, but obviously (the coaches) feel like they can carry the load.”

                            Keisel didn’t even address Allen taking over for Keenan Lewis at cornerback, probably because the faith in Allen’s ability is widespread on the South Side, and because Lewis’ breakout season as a starter last season was so surprising.

                            There’s also widespread optimism regarding McLendon taking over on the nose, but Hampton was so good and so important for so long that his successor simply cannot be rubber-stamped as the next big thing in the middle.

                            McLendon, like Allen, has shown some nice flashes in relatively limited action, but both are going to have to establish that they’re consistently up to the challenge.

                            Worilds is going to have to first prove that he’s worthy as a replacement for James Harrison, and then prove it on a week-to-week basis. And Worilds has yet to do either in three seasons with the Steelers.

                            His career to this juncture has been characterized mostly by either injury, indifference or both. Worilds has also shown some nice flashes with 8 sacks in 10 career starts.

                            But even as he was flashing last season, he was likewise exasperating. Worilds had 5 of his sacks in 2012, but accounted for just 4 special-teams tackles.

                            He gets first shot at Harrison’s job not because Worilds has established through his search-and-destroy play in the kicking game that the Steelers simply have to get him on the field somewhere, but because he’s the best option available at present.

                            Of course, that situation is subject to change after the drafting of Jarvis Jones in the first round in April.

                            Off-the-record expectations expressed during the spring sessions assessed that upcoming position battle thusly:

                            * If Worilds consistently plays the way the Steelers believe he’s capable of playing, he’ll start all season.

                            * If Worilds plays the way he has in his first three seasons, Jones will be starting after the bye week.

                            The examples established by two of Worilds’ teammates last season could prove influential, providing Worilds has been paying attention.

                            Lewis was in pretty much the same position last season, that of an underachiever who had yet to live up to the post-draft hype and expectation entering the last year of his contract. But Lewis embraced the opportunity that came his way and played well enough to get paid.

                            And Harrison didn’t become a full-time starter until 2007, his fourth full season with the team and the season in which linebackers Lawrence Timmons and LaMarr Woodley had been drafted in the first and second rounds.

                            That latter example has been relayed to Worilds repeatedly by Larry Foote.

                            “I told him I remember when Joey Porter left and they went out and drafted Lawrence Timmons,” Foote said. “Initially, they drafted him to be an outside linebacker. They overlooked James Harrison. They didn’t know what he could do, he hadn’t played that much.

                            “James stepped in that first year and took off and he wasn’t looking back. I told (Worilds), ‘That’s gotta be your same approach.’”

                            That’s gotta be Worilds’ approach because Harrison has to be replaced by someone, and because that has to happen before Woodley can become Woodley once again after amassing one fewer sack (four) than Worilds in 2012.

                            Other than all of that, it’s business as usual for the Steelers at outside linebacker.

                            A Worilds of difference, indeed.

                            [URL]http://pit.scout.com/2/1304452.html[/URL]
                            Worilds just needs to do better than 6 sacks and he will be better than the last version of Harrison we saw in a Steelers uniform. IMO he will do much better than that. Add in Jones and the ROLB position will be fine.
                            "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

                            Comment

                            • Captain Lemming
                              Legend
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 16041

                              #74
                              Originally posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o.
                              This is why Hampton was always so underrated. He made it all work. He collapsed the pocket, he freed up linebackers. More so in the past, but the entire 3-4 concept begins with the NT. He was the anchor for many years - and all this with a grand total of 9 career sacks, 4 career forced fumbles, and never more than 43 combined tackles in a season.
                              Yes, we all know how its supposed to work.
                              All I know is that since 2004 the Steelers have a regular season record of 17 and 1 when Hampton was not the starter.

                              Steelers all time best record in 2004 (15-1) when Casey missed 10 games UNDEDFEATED in those 10 games Casey missed.
                              Beat BOTH SB teams without Casey, ended with the leagues number one defense without Casey.


                              While we know Casey was better than Hoke, the above indicates to me that Casey, who EVERY Steeler fan insists is "underappreciated" (how's that when he is a 5 time probowler) is overrated by us.
                              Our actual success seems to depend little on whether he plays or not. Statistically, we have had MORE success when he is out.

                              Just in case you are STILL not convinced.
                              2008 Steelers Ravens.....Casey is out:
                              .
                              Harrison had 11 total tackles, 2.5 sacks, and created the fumble that was returned by Woodley (who had 1.5 sacks himself) for the game winning TD.
                              Timmons ALSO had a sack that game. No Casey and the LBers had 5 sacks.

                              What made Casey so valuable again?
                              sigpic



                              In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                              TCFCLTC-
                              The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                              Comment

                              • flippy
                                Legend
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 17088

                                #75
                                I think for some of these guys, health is going to be the key factor. Can Worilds, Sanders, the Oline, etc stay healthy? If so I think we have some players and could be the big surprise of the season.
                                sigpic

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