Big Ben on Wallace: Steelers will miss him, Dolphins are lucky

[NorthCoast]

Because the running game was worthless, and Roethlisberger suffered a freak injury to his throwing shoulder/rib, and he had to come back earlier than recommended because the team was suddenly down to its third-string QB, and opposing defenses took away all the short receiving options and forced the passing game to become more vertical, which didn't work because a) Roethlisberger was scattershot playing through said throwing shoulder/rib injury, and b) the offensive line suddenly dealt with a litany of injuries themselves late in the season. Death by a thousand cuts. Not to mention the fact that some of the players weren't good fits for Todd Haley's system, which requires versatile WRs who can run more than just "go" routes consistently well (sorry, Mike Wallace), and athletic offensive linemen who excel at "zone" blocking (sorry, Max Starks and Willie Colon).

This.

Fix the run game and there will be no need to worry about the pass offense regardless of who is playing WR. Teams are more and more building their defense to stop the pass. This is the time to find a RB (and OL) that can make them pay.

[Captain Lemming]

Check the Stats on dropped passes by all NFL receivers, there are several that had more drops than Wallace.

Is that a SERIOUS reply? "there are several receivers" who dropped more passes? Really?
You are suggesting that all but a few receivers have worse hands than Wallace? THAT is a defense?
He is getting PAID the big bucks for THAT?

He forced the Fins to to give him a deal that counts 14 mil against the cap next year.

I am not saying we are better without him.

I am saying that we are better without him if we have to PAY HIM what he wanted. We trade ONE talented receiver for a reduction in our overall talent. It happens every time.

ANYONE who was FOR signing him, would YOU pay that and DESTROY any hope of keeping other talent for years to come?

Please tell me WHAT TOP PAID RECEIVER HAS WON A SB IN RECENT YEARS PERIOD? It does not happen.

Elite receivers are overpaid to the detriment of their teams. Wallace aint even elite.

I gave you the example earier-

Two Card receivers one got paid, one moved on and got a "reasonable" contract.

The "elite" guy's team is WORSE.
The lesser receiver has a ring.

YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH STUPID OWNERS WHO OVERPAY RECEIVERS AND WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. PERIOD.

Anyone who thinks we should have given Wallace what he wanted, please prove me wrong by citing examples of the last time signing a receiver to a big contract led to a championship? Rice or Irvin? 1990s? Last DECADE? Zero.

[Shawn]

A QB makes receivers, not the other way around. Brady made Deion Branch look all world. When was the last time a WR made a QB? Ben will throw for 4000 yards+ this season without Wallace. I would rather spend he money shaping up our D.

[Eich]

A QB makes receivers, not the other way around. Brady made Deion Branch look all world. When was the last time a WR made a QB? Ben will throw for 4000 yards+ this season without Wallace. I would rather spend he money shaping up our D.

I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with such a blanket statement in all cases. The QB is certainly the more important position to have a franchise player in. But I think Anquan Boldin helped make Flacco more than the other way around.

That said, we did win a ring with Hines, Cedric Wilson and Randel El. And we can win another without Wallace. I hope that Antonio turns out to be our next Hines Ward. Big shoes to fill despite the fact that a certain board member always referred to Hines as a "dime a dozen" receiver.

[Captain Lemming]

I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with such a blanket statement in all cases. The QB is certainly the more important position to have a franchise player in. But I think Anquan Boldin helped make Flacco more than the other way around.

That said, we did win a ring with Hines, Cedric Wilson and Randel El. And we can win another without Wallace. I hope that Antonio turns out to be our next Hines Ward. Big shoes to fill despite the fact that a certain board member always referred to Hines as a "dime a dozen" receiver.

Arizona had two receivers.
When they had the SAME QB, NOBODY put Boldin anywhere near Fitz in terms of talent.Z
"IF" the receiver makes the QB, what is the problem with Zona?

All of a sudden EVERYBODY want a Boldin.

True boldin made great catches, in traffic. No different than Swann back in the day. Does that mean Bradshaw gets no credit?

But the dude has been a Raven for three seasons, and NEVER made Flacco a great QB.

Flacco was just as inaccurate as ever WITH Boldin during most of his time as a Raven.
Boldin was always a strong, physical, player. He could not fix Flacco the scrub, just as the superior Fitz cant fix the scrubs he deals with today.

Truth is, Flacco got hot,for a handful of games. That was the difference with this run.

As Steeler fan we are haters, we just have a hard time giving Flacco the credit he deserves.

[feltdizz]

As Steeler fan we are haters, we just have a hard time giving Flacco the credit he deserves.

Bingo... .

[Captain Lemming]

Arizona had two receivers.
When they had the SAME QB, NOBODY put Boldin anywhere near Fitz in terms of talent.Z
"IF" the receiver makes the QB, what is the problem with Zona?

All of a sudden EVERYBODY want a Boldin.

True boldin made great catches, in traffic. No different than Swann back in the day. Does that mean Bradshaw gets no credit?

But the dude has been a Raven for three seasons, and NEVER made Flacco a great QB.

Flacco was just as inaccurate as ever WITH Boldin during most of his time as a Raven.
Boldin was always a strong, physical, player. He could not fix Flacco the scrub, just as the superior Fitz cant fix the scrubs he deals with today.

Truth is, Flacco got hot,for a handful of games. That was the difference with this run.

As Steeler fan we are haters, we just have a hard time giving Flacco the credit he deserves.

Ben has had two receivers of superior natural talent. Burress and Wallace.
Neither contributed to his two rings.

Brady had ONE receiver who might ne the most talented of all time.
Brady had ridiculous NUMBERS with Randy Moss in his prime.

But the likes of Troy Brown, not Randy Moss contibuted to his 3 rings.

Good receivers help, but I find no correlation in this decade between "great" individual receiver talent and winning.

The best formula is a stable of very good receivers ala GB winning SB team, than giving megabucks to one extreme talent

[Oviedo]

Ben has had two receivers of superior natural talent. Burress and Wallace.
Neither contributed to his two rings.

Brady had ONE receiver who might ne the most talented of all time.
Brady had ridiculous NUMBERS with Randy Moss in his prime.

But the likes of Troy Brown, not Randy Moss contibuted to his 3 rings.

Good receivers help, but I find no correlation in this decade between "great" individual receiver talent and winning.

The best formula is a stable of very good receivers ala GB winning SB team, than giving megabucks to one extreme talent

$$$$ the key is having LOTS of weapons that fit your offense not a prima dona who gets lots of media attention because that is only one player. That is why I don't think we miss Wallace as much as fans are hoping so they can claim they were right. Thgrows to players like Wallace are not high probability of success throws. How probability of success throws are short to mid range where you have WRs who can get yards after the catch, move the chains and consume time off the clock as you wear down the opposing defense which makes them less effective late in the game.

[Captain Lemming]

$$$$ the key is having LOTS of weapons that fit your offense not a prima dona who gets lots of media attention because that is only one player. That is why I don't think we miss Wallace as much as fans are hoping so they can claim they were right. Thgrows to players like Wallace are not high probability of success throws. How probability of success throws are short to mid range where you have WRs who can get yards after the catch, move the chains and consume time off the clock as you wear down the opposing defense which makes them less effective late in the game.

This answers why NE never entered the Wallace sweepstakes.
Everybody said he is the missing piece there.
But word was out Wallace wanted all the bank he could get and NE doesnt play that game.
Heck they got Moss at a bargain.

Smart teams dont compete with stupid teams for elite receiver talent.

Boldin just got overpaid, as did Wallace, as did Megatron, as did Fitz, so on and so forth. Welker walks and it aint no big deal.

NE signed Brandon Lloyd to a three year deal worth 12 mil last year when people thought they might go after Wallace as a restricted free agent.
Wallace got 11 mil AS A SIGNING BONUS, before his annual salary. He makes as much this year as Lloyd does through the course of his 3 year deal.
Wallace gets 30 mil total in his first two years. And has the dropsies.

The Fins screwed up their cap royally.

That is why the fins are the Fins and the Pats contend annually.

Pro-Wallace people, you cannot view this in a vacuum.
The question is not whether you would like to have Wallace, it is WOULD YOU WANT TO PAY WALLACE.

[NJ-STEELER]

A QB makes receivers, not the other way around. Brady made Deion Branch look all world. When was the last time a WR made a QB? Ben will throw for 4000 yards+ this season without Wallace. I would rather spend he money shaping up our D.

usually yes

but whats rivers done without his 6'5 deep threat where he would chuck the ball into his vicinity and he's make a play on it. he also doesnt have a in his prime 6'5 elite downfield TE

[Chadman]

ANYONE who was FOR signing him, would YOU pay that and DESTROY any hope of keeping other talent for years to come?

Can't speak for everyone, but Chadman wants to just point out that his argument FOR Wallace was always tied in with the argument AGAINST signing Brown.

Given that the 'reports' suggest the Steelers were close to agreeing a deal with Wallace but the numbers were out as far as guarenteed money goes, and the 'reports' suggest the Steelers offer in 2012 was not that much different financially to the one that Antonio Brown signed, Chadman would say that the Steelers signed THE WRONG WR.

Brown is going to cost the Steelers upwards of $6.5m in 2013. In 2014 he's up near $9.5m. There simply is not any evidence, AT ALL, that Brown is worth near that money. More concerning is that he regressed AFTER being paid. Wallace regressed as a result of not being paid. Wallace's body of work is far superior to our new #1 WR, yet we let him walk & keep the guy that has never exceeded him. That doesn't make sense, and compared to paying Wallace a couple of million more, is a bad business decision.

Another point to make on Wallace, as a "Pro-Wallace" guy, Chadman always took exception to hearing that Wallace was 'stupid' or 'dumb' to not accept the offer the Steelers gave him. Wallace & his agent always contested he was worth more. And the open market suggests he was right. It wasn't stupid, or dumb. He knew his worth in the NFL, and got paid like it. Signing for less than you are worth for a team is stupid & dumb, because regardless of how good you are, or how successful you've been- the team does not always show the same kind of loyalty. Ask James Harrison.

In the end, the Steelers could have paid Wallace in 2012, not even at the expense of Brown (who would be on a RFA tender this season- same cost as Sanders), and the WR corp would not require any addition through the upcoming draft.

Brown smiles a lot & seems a nice guy. He's also the same guy that went to the media & said there was internal strife at the Steelers, which has been refuted by his GM. Wallace has never publicly complained about his contract treatment or complained about his team mates. The hate toward Wallace on this board is at times comical. Even in his 'bad year' in 2013, he outperformed the board favourite Brown. Chadman is, as yet, to find anyone to say the Steelers need to upgrade from Brown, yet everyone wanted to upgrade from Wallace. The logic was baffling. Still is.

Don't wish Wallace any bad luck- Chadman hopes he has a fine career. But, as some posters would want you to believe, Chadman doesn't hope Wallace succeeds & Brown fails just to justify his position. But at this point, it's safe to say that Chadman has great concerns about the strength of the WR's currently in Pittsburgh.

[Slapstick]

That doesn't make sense, and compared to paying Wallace a couple of million more, is a bad business decision.

In the end, the Steelers could have paid Wallace in 2012, not even at the expense of Brown (who would be on a RFA tender this season- same cost as Sanders), and the WR corp would not require any addition through the upcoming draft.

I normally respect your opinion, but this is kind of garbage...

Wallace wanted a deal like he got in Miami...he wasn't getting that from the Steelers...end of story...

Also, just because Wallace got the money that he wanted, it does not mean that he (or ANY WR) is actually worth that much money...which is, I believe, Lemming's point...

[Chadman]

I normally respect your opinion, but this is kind of garbage...

Wallace wanted a deal like he got in Miami...he wasn't getting that from the Steelers...end of story...

Also, just because Wallace got the money that he wanted, it does not mean that he (or ANY WR) is actually worth that much money...which is, I believe, Lemming's point...

There were reports Wallace wanted "top 10'" money, and there were reports he was close to signing but the sticking point was the guarenteed money. Believe what you prefer, but had the Steelers & Wallace been able to agree on the guarenteed portion of the contract offer- he would have signed.

As to if he is 'worth' the money he is on- market forces decide that. Is Ben worth $100m? Is Flacco worth more? If Flacco had gone into FA, would he be worth more than what he signed for? Obviously Wallace & his agent had some idea what HE was worth in FA. You can't say he isn't worth it, if there were people willing to pay it.

Chadman understands Lemming's point that he doesn't believe WR's are worth that kind of money. That's ok, not going to dispute that. But if we are about to argue that Wallace isn't worthy of the money in his contract, surely we can argue the worth of the guy the Steelers did pay.

[Sugar]

Chadman understands Lemming's point that he doesn't believe WR's are worth that kind of money. That's ok, not going to dispute that. But if we are about to argue that Wallace isn't worthy of the money in his contract, surely we can argue the worth of the guy the Steelers did pay.

I've wondered about this too. So many people want to talk about how AB was the more "complete" WR, but that didn't seem to translate into much. I just hope that AB can handle the big boy pants this year, because the Steelers will need him to.

[Captain Lemming]

Can't speak for everyone, but Chadman wants to just point out that his argument FOR Wallace was always tied in with the argument AGAINST signing Brown.

Given that the 'reports' suggest the Steelers were close to agreeing a deal with Wallace but the numbers were out as far as guarenteed money goes, and the 'reports' suggest the Steelers offer in 2012 was not that much different financially to the one that Antonio Brown signed, Chadman would say that the Steelers signed THE WRONG WR.

Brown is going to cost the Steelers upwards of $6.5m in 2013. In 2014 he's up near $9.5m. There simply is not any evidence, AT ALL, that Brown is worth near that money. More concerning is that he regressed AFTER being paid. Wallace regressed as a result of not being paid. Wallace's body of work is far superior to our new #1 WR, yet we let him walk & keep the guy that has never exceeded him. That doesn't make sense, and compared to paying Wallace a couple of million more, is a bad business decision.

Another point to make on Wallace, as a "Pro-Wallace" guy, Chadman always took exception to hearing that Wallace was 'stupid' or 'dumb' to not accept the offer the Steelers gave him. Wallace & his agent always contested he was worth more. And the open market suggests he was right. It wasn't stupid, or dumb. He knew his worth in the NFL, and got paid like it. Signing for less than you are worth for a team is stupid & dumb, because regardless of how good you are, or how successful you've been- the team does not always show the same kind of loyalty. Ask James Harrison.

In the end, the Steelers could have paid Wallace in 2012, not even at the expense of Brown (who would be on a RFA tender this season- same cost as Sanders), and the WR corp would not require any addition through the upcoming draft.

Brown smiles a lot & seems a nice guy. He's also the same guy that went to the media & said there was internal strife at the Steelers, which has been refuted by his GM. Wallace has never publicly complained about his contract treatment or complained about his team mates. The hate toward Wallace on this board is at times comical. Even in his 'bad year' in 2013, he outperformed the board favourite Brown. Chadman is, as yet, to find anyone to say the Steelers need to upgrade from Brown, yet everyone wanted to upgrade from Wallace. The logic was baffling. Still is.

Don't wish Wallace any bad luck- Chadman hopes he has a fine career. But, as some posters would want you to believe, Chadman doesn't hope Wallace succeeds & Brown fails just to justify his position. But at this point, it's safe to say that Chadman has great concerns about the strength of the WR's currently in Pittsburgh.

Chadman, your points are always ased on the "assumption" that Wallace wanted "a little" more than Brown got. Some say he wanted Fitz money too. We have no idea what his demands were.
This we do know- The Steelers offerred Wallace "first". They "settled" for Brown.
Wallace signs and Brown would never get paid.

The only reason they locked Brown up early was WALLACE wanted more than the Steelers would dish out to a receiver.
Browns value went from "we'll deal with it when we have to", to we might have NOBODY at the position. THAT IS WHY BROWN GOT PAID.

You assume his demands were "close" to what Brown got? You cite years two (6.5 mil) and three (9.5 mil) of Browns deal. Wallace will make more than that 17.5 mil in ONE SEASON (2014). That is followed by cap hits of 12.05, 13.65, and 13.65

You can say he wanted "just a little more" than Brown got, others say he wanted Fitz money.
What we know is "what he got" and if you want to be mad with the team we can assume that this was at least the number he was looking for. We now have a figure.
Do you want ONE RECEIVER counting SEVENTEEN MILLION against the cap next year? 12 million plus against the cap EVERY YEAR save for ONE YEAR?

The Steelers never picked Brown over Wallace. Wallace wanted more than the Steelers or any smart team would give him and priced himself out of our team.

You argue that, Wallace DID get paid big bucks despite what his haters said. Who cares.

That aint my beef, I'm not surprised at all he got paid. I dont hate him for it.

Wallace aint the stupid one, anybody who pays Wallace that kind of coin is stupid because it will HINDER success dues to the cap hit.

If you want to honestly defend Wallace as a Steeler, say loud and clear "yes I would have signed him to THAT deal." Dont play with imaginary scenarios that have have no basis in reality.

If not, you have no case whatsoever to be critical.