Colbert

[D Rock]

Take that, but then add Bettis, Farrior, Hartings, KVO, A. Smith, and then look at things such as games played per season, per starter.

and that's how you win Super Bowls, and end up in this situation where you are transitioning from a decade long highly successful, championship team, to one that is more youthful and ready to make their own run. It sucks that it has to be like this, but you can't avoid it. It's the price of extended success.

[squidkid]

Amen!! Coach T is one of the things that makes me more confident in this team. The Steelers FO did the right thing when they signed him instead of Grimm or Whiz. He's a creative guy and I'm fairly confident he'll right the ship.

i think people are forgetting how he takes marginal players and develops them into studs, how he always has the team prepared, gameplanning for each and every team and exploiting their weaknesses, his great in game adjustments and his use of challenges and clock management. the team plays their hearts out for him. the way he has come in and added his expertise to the 3-4 defense is spectacular. i also like the way he chooses not to be distracted with the hiring or firing of his staff. he tells the rooneys to make that decision for him because he doesnt have time for that stuff. he is more valuable using the off season to evaluate the college kids so his drafts are fantastic.

[Vader]

Go back and look at the drafts before Tomlin...the success rate isn't much different.

you have 22 starters on each team, spread out over a career length of maybe 10 years or so. That's about 2 starters per draft (including UDFA), plus some free agents.

I don't think the team has really been that far off the mark lately drafting, outside of probably 2008.

Tomlin's starters/rotational backups (ignoring ST players):

2007: Timmons, Woodley, Gay
2008: Mendenhall, Mundy
2009: Hood, Wallace, Lewis, Johnson
2010: Pouncey, Worilds, Sanders, Dwyer, Brown
2011: Heyward, Gilbert, Allen
2012: Decastro, Adams, Beachum


Cowher's since 2000:

2000: Burress, M. Smith, Haggans
2001: Hampton, Bell,
2002: Simmons, Randle El, Hope, Foote, Haynes, Keisel
2003: Polamalu, Taylor
2004: Roethlisberger, Starks
2005: Miller, McFadden, Essex, Kemoeatu
2006: Holmes, Colon

Look, one season going 8-8 doesn't mean these current players are garbage, as hard as that seems to be for some people to realize right now.

Did you really look at the list you provided? You have Mundy, Gilbert, and Beachum? Cowher has 2 HOF players in Ben and Troy and Hampton is one of the best NT to play in the 3-4. Not sure what your list is based on because half of Tomlin's list isn't even starters. Ben, Starks, Miller, Hampton, Troy, Taylor, Keisel were all the reason Tomlin won his only SB. I don't see the similar drafting history at all. There isn't one player on Tomlin's list that is one of the best at his position. Cowher has at least 3. Just to see how bad the 08 and 09 drafts were, there is only one player left from either of them. Even if the Steelers wanted Wallace that's one player that starts out of 2 drafts. They clearly didn't want Mendy back. When I look at the last few drafts I see average players. Players like Hood, Worilds, Gilbert, Mundy, Beachum, Gay, Johnson etc.. are average (at best) players. They aren't in the same league as Ben, Starks, Troy, Hampton, Holmes, Miller, and Burress.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

and that's how you win Super Bowls, and end up in this situation where you are transitioning from a decade long highly successful, championship team, to one that is more youthful and ready to make their own run. It sucks that it has to be like this, but you can't avoid it. It's the price of extended success.

Personally I address other positions than RB, DE x 2, in round 1.

Matt Forte
Ray Rice
Kevin Smith
Jamaal Charles
Steve Slaton
Tashard Choice
Ryan Torain
Tim Hightower

All 2008 drafted RB's taken after the first round.

[deljzc]

Go back and look at the drafts before Tomlin...the success rate isn't much different.

you have 22 starters on each team, spread out over a career length of maybe 10 years or so. That's about 2 starters per draft (including UDFA), plus some free agents.

I don't think the team has really been that far off the mark lately drafting, outside of probably 2008.

Tomlin's starters/rotational backups (ignoring ST players):

2007: Timmons, Woodley, Gay
2008: Mendenhall, Mundy
2009: Hood, Wallace, Lewis, Johnson
2010: Pouncey, Worilds, Sanders, Dwyer, Brown
2011: Heyward, Gilbert, Allen
2012: Decastro, Adams, Beachum


Cowher's since 2000:

2000: Burress, M. Smith, Haggans
2001: Hampton, Bell,
2002: Simmons, Randle El, Hope, Foote, Haynes, Keisel
2003: Polamalu, Taylor
2004: Roethlisberger, Starks
2005: Miller, McFadden, Essex, Kemoeatu
2006: Holmes, Colon

Draft success to find starters hasn't really changed. A salary cap that went stagnant, combined with recent Super Bowl teams and the allure that comes with hanging on to players who have performed their jobs to the highest level, has left this team in a bad salary cap spot. This has led to players leaving for big dollars elsewhere. Having a franchise QB also plays into that, as they command a much larger chunk of your cap than average QBs do.

Look, one season going 8-8 doesn't mean these current players are garbage, as hard as that seems to be for some people to realize right now.

The big difference isn't the quantity, it's the quality.

There are more than a few pro-bowlers in Cowher's group, and I don't see any in Tomlin's group. That's the difference. Some of these draft picks are starting in years 2-4 not because they are good. It's because we have been credit-card spending, up against the cap team and they HAVE to start. And the fact we've been an older team and have had a lot of injuries.

We've found bodies in the draft. Guys that take up roster spots. I think we have failed at finding Steeler-type difference makers that will contribute into their 2nd contracts with us.

[steelerkeylargo]

The big difference isn't the quantity, it's the quality.

There are more than a few pro-bowlers in Cowher's group, and I don't see any in Tomlin's group. That's the difference. Some of these draft picks are starting in years 2-4 not because they are good. It's because we have been credit-card spending, up against the cap team and they HAVE to start. And the fact we've been an older team and have had a lot of injuries.



We've found bodies in the draft. Guys that take up roster spots. I think we have failed at finding Steeler-type difference makers that will contribute into their 2nd contracts with us.

You don't see any in Tomlins group??? Woodley, Brown, Wallace, Pouncey.

[Sugar]

You don't see any in Tomlins group??? Woodley, Brown, Wallace, Pouncey.

Timmons should have been a Pro-Bowler too. Just sayin....

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Everyone is leaving Aaron Smith off their lists. Also, under Cowher we had some HUGE free agent signings (KVO, Farrier, Hartings, Clark) that were not super expensive plus the trade for Bettis. Plus Cowher hit on lots of UDFA.

Tomlin has brought us a bunch of ex Steelers we have had to bring back as his free agent pick ups & Cotchery.

[steelerkeylargo]

Timmons should have been a Pro-Bowler too. Just sayin....

Keenan Lewis too

[Slapstick]

Timmons should have been a Pro-Bowler too. Just sayin....

Brown was also a pro bowler...

And Harrison became a pro bowler under Tomlin...he was a backup under Cowher...

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Keenan Lewis too

Not sure about that one. You pulling Champ Bailey, Jonathan Joseph, or Antonio Cromartie off the roster for him?

[BradshawsHairdresser]

i think people are forgetting how he takes marginal players and develops them into studs, how he always has the team prepared, gameplanning for each and every team and exploiting their weaknesses, his great in game adjustments and his use of challenges and clock management. the team plays their hearts out for him. the way he has come in and added his expertise to the 3-4 defense is spectacular. i also like the way he chooses not to be distracted with the hiring or firing of his staff. he tells the rooneys to make that decision for him because he doesnt have time for that stuff. he is more valuable using the off season to evaluate the college kids so his drafts are fantastic.

Who are you and what have you done with squidkid?

[steelerkeylargo]

Champ Bailey in a heartbeat

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Champ Bailey in a heartbeat

Yeah, quite possibly. 15 more tackles for KL, 2 less picks. Not sure on PD. Lewis led the league didn't he?

Btw...like the trade down scenario in your mock a lot but not the picks other than Ellington.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Keenan Lewis too

Lewis had a nice season as the #2, but I wouldn't put him in the PB. I wouldn't put him there in front of Ike.