wide receivers at combine

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  • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
    Hall of Famer
    • May 2008
    • 3937

    #46
    Originally posted by Slapstick
    Again, I disagree...

    Holmes ran almost a tenth faster than Brown's combine number at the OSU Pro Day, on a notoriously fast track...at the combine, it was only .02 faster...

    Brown is also very good at beating the jam and getting off the line...certainly better than any other WR on the Steelers last year...he was beating Nnamdi Asomougha off the line vs. Philly...when you can do that, you have some skills...

    Yes, Holmes did score more in his first three years...Holmes was also a first round draft pick and a much more polished product coming from a much larger college program...Buckeyes vs. Chippewas...

    I'm less concerned with what Brown did in his first three years than I am with what Brown will do over the next few seasons with the Steelers...you may not believe that he has the tools, but I do...hopefully, for the good of the team, I hope I'm right...
    You can disagree with the facts Slap. The information is there for you but disagreeing with it doesn't make it wrong. I'm not going to argue about 40 times if you think that is what makes someone an X. Now we are using excuses about 1st round versus 5th round. There was a reason Brown was around in the 5th and Holmes went in the 1st. I commend Brown on his work ethic. He will only get better...But he may never be a true X. That doesn't mean he can't be great. I am a big fan of Browns and hate arguing about his short comings. That just may be the reality of it though.

    The Eagles game is your argument killer? Did you watch the game? Brown had 7 catches..Good game. I believe he had 3 catches on NA, 2 on Cromartie, and 2 on Boykin. The highlights are still on NFL.com. Go watch and tell me how many times you see Brown being pressed. They have his 19 yarder on their against NA. Guess what? Motion into bunch with off covergae. Free release on a 5 yard hitch and NA misses the tackle coming up 10 yards off the LOS. Brown to X would be wide left with a CB in press..2 deep man under.

    Why is Wallace an X? Nobody has enough hair on their nuts to press Wallace 24-7 with no S help. If he faced CBs that could run with him and press he would struggle to be very productive until he learned how. Wallace's God given abilities makes teams account for him off coverage because there isn't many that can run with him. Even..He is leavin. To press Wallace means you have to put a S over the Top. Teams do that and take him out of games. That is still a win for the Steelers but the other WRs have to win their battles and the run game SHOULD flourish. Now some football. Wallace outside X strongside. What does that do? The SS can't walk up in the box and help against the run if they want to press. You use that as an OC. You overload with 2 TE off motion. You make them walk the SS up. You run it down their throat until they do. So now the CB has to play off coverage against Wallace. I know people hate this. But BB checks to his quicks to Wallace. Soon the CB cheats up. It is a chess match. It may look like a dumb A$$ play but it is all part of a plan. With Brown out there, the CB will cheat up and press. He will have to get off the line. Brown is easily redirected in press. The timing will be hurt. Get ready for alot of back shoulder throws.

    The Steelers use motion & bunch to get the D out of press because their WR group is small in stature. Sound familiar? The bunch we all hate so much that we seem for so many years. That is why you see it alot EVEN with Arians gone. That is a good scheme if you are passing but you have to show run out of that too. Problem is it brings more guys near the LOS who are not accounted for in the blocking scheme. So now you need WR that can block well. If you have a great WR ala Ward...You could even use him on Wham blocks. He could dig an OLB or SS. This is the luv-hate with this scheme. Use bunch & motion to free up your WRs release...But they will have to block. Blocking isn't a strong point for Wallace, Brown, or Sanders. So because of that you see 12 & 22 personnel to bunch the TEs to help block but that put 1 or 2 Wrs on the field. One of the reasons Miller had a huge year was because Haley would release Miller more than Arians would. But you have to be successful running out of it to make them walk up the SS. Now you attack vertical with Wallace. The Steelers weren't successful running out of it in 2012. The big problem now if Wallace leaves, DCs will be more comfortable walking the S up. Brown will draw press outside. He will HAVE to show he could beat it more often than not.

    I'm not questioning Browns skills as a WR...Just the outside guy. He hasn't been in that role for a full season and things will change drastically with no Wallace. To be honest, if they do sign Breaston, Breaston or Sanders may be their best option there and let Brown stay inside. I would hate to hinder what Brown can bring to the offense. He can prove me wrong and I hope he does. S Smith was a little more exposive coming out...But S Smith was the exception. Maybe Brown can be too.

    Comment

    • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
      Legend
      • May 2008
      • 10281

      #47
      Originally posted by Captain Crunch
      Can't agree... I really like Brown's all around ability but he's not Mike Wallace. Wallace is comparable to a young Randy Moss as far as his deep threat capabilities are concerned. Speed kills. He has the speed to just blow by defenders and the ability to catch 50+ yard bombs in full stride and make it look easy... That is what was so maddening about some of Wallaces drops on shorter routes last year...
      Randy Moss comparing his place against Jerry Rice has a lot more credibility than comparing Wallace with Moss.
      http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

      Comment

      • Steelerfan31
        Rookie
        • Feb 2013
        • 3

        #48
        Originally posted by calmkiller
        Stedman Bailey is IMO the best receiver in the draft if you are looking for an outside receiver. He doesn't have the blazing speed but he has great body control and catches everything thrown at him. He understands how to run routes as well. Tavon Austin is the best play maker in the draft but he is not an outside receiver. Put him in our system in place of Rainey and watch the points go up.
        As this guy has said, if you want a play maker, Tavon is your guy! Yes. He isn't tall like a Plaxico B. or Mike Wallace but he is fast, quick and makes plays!

        Stedman Bailey will also be steal for a team in the 3rd Round! I would love for the Steelers to draft one of these two guys!! I think both of them will play for a long time in the NFL! Plus they could use Tavon for Kickoff Returns.

        Comment

        • Slapstick
          Rookie
          • May 2008
          • 0

          #49
          Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
          You can disagree with the facts Slap. The information is there for you but disagreeing with it doesn't make it wrong. I'm not going to argue about 40 times if you think that is what makes someone an X. Now we are using excuses about 1st round versus 5th round. There was a reason Brown was around in the 5th and Holmes went in the 1st. I commend Brown on his work ethic. He will only get better...But he may never be a true X. That doesn't mean he can't be great. I am a big fan of Browns and hate arguing about his short comings. That just may be the reality of it though.
          There is also a reason why guys like James Harrison and Willie Parker went undrafted...again, not concerned so much with the past, but with the future...

          Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
          The Eagles game is your argument killer? Did you watch the game? Brown had 7 catches..Good game. I believe he had 3 catches on NA, 2 on Cromartie, and 2 on Boykin. The highlights are still on NFL.com. Go watch and tell me how many times you see Brown being pressed. They have his 19 yarder on their against NA. Guess what? Motion into bunch with off covergae. Free release on a 5 yard hitch and NA misses the tackle coming up 10 yards off the LOS. Brown to X would be wide left with a CB in press..2 deep man under.
          Yes I did watch the game, which is why I specifically referenced it. No, it is not the "argument killer", it is merely an example...when I watched the game, I was actually amazed at how well Brown got off the line with NA right in his face...that's why I brought it up...now, whether or not he caught the ball on a given play is different...I was speaking merely in terms of how well he got off the LoS in that particular game...

          More later...I have to go back to work...
          Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

          Comment

          • Captain Crunch
            Backup
            • Aug 2012
            • 116

            #50
            Originally posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o.
            Randy Moss comparing his place against Jerry Rice has a lot more credibility than comparing Wallace with Moss.
            You musn't have read all of my posts and thought is this thread... I'm only comparing his vertical ability and the fact he can blow by a defender and snag a huge game breaking play like Moss... That we will miss if it's not replaced.

            Comment

            • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
              Hall of Famer
              • May 2008
              • 3937

              #51
              Originally posted by Slapstick
              There is also a reason why guys like James Harrison and Willie Parker went undrafted...again, not concerned so much with the past, but with the future...



              Yes I did watch the game, which is why I specifically referenced it. No, it is not the "argument killer", it is merely an example...when I watched the game, I was actually amazed at how well Brown got off the line with NA right in his face...that's why I brought it up...now, whether or not he caught the ball on a given play is different...I was speaking merely in terms of how well he got off the LoS in that particular game...

              More later...I have to go back to work...
              You went from posting combine numbers of AB to mentioning UDFA players? Come on Slap. I rarely saw the Eagles press or have a chance to press. You can even watch the highlights and see. Better feel would be the Browns game when Wallace wasn't there. Brown caught 2 balls that game on Haden and his TD was a great play by him when BB scarmbled towards the LOS and Haden lost him.

              You say you are not concerned with the past but the future. Not sure what you mean there. You talked about Brown's combine and how those numbers make him an X. Brown logged three years here (past) not as the #1. Wouldn't you have to consider the past and where he played with Wallace if you want to project him in a new spot replacing Wallace? Brown is a hell of a football player...But he won't bring what Wallace did to the field. There isn't a guy on the roster who could do that. Brown will have to prove he can be the man before I crown him anything.
              Last edited by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY; 02-26-2013, 02:19 PM.

              Comment

              • papillon
                Legend
                • Mar 2008
                • 11340

                #52
                Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                You went from posting combine numbers of AB to mentioning UDFA players? Come on Pap. I rarely saw the Eagles press or have a chance to press. You can even watch the highlights and see. Better feel would be the Browns game when Wallace wasn't there. Brown caught 2 balls that game on Haden and his TD was a great play by him when BB scarmbled towards the LOS and Haden lost him.

                You say you are not concerned with the past but the future. Not sure what you mean there. You talked about Brown's combine and how those numbers make him an X. Brown logged three years here (past) not as the #1. Wouldn't you have to consider the past and where he played with Wallace if you want to project him in a new spot replacing Wallace? Brown is a hell of a football player...But he won't bring what Wallace did to the field. There isn't a guy on the roster who could do that. Brown will have to prove he can be the man before I crown him anything.
                JPN, I'm a bit scared that you're thinking about me when you're replying to Slapstick.

                Pappy
                sigpic

                The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

                1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
                3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
                3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
                4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
                5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
                7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

                "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

                Comment

                • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                  Hall of Famer
                  • May 2008
                  • 3937

                  #53
                  Originally posted by papillon
                  JPN, I'm a bit scared that you're thinking about me when you're replying to Slapstick.

                  Pappy
                  Lol Sorry Pap. Got Luv for all of ya!

                  Comment

                  • Slapstick
                    Rookie
                    • May 2008
                    • 0

                    #54
                    Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                    You went from posting combine numbers of AB to mentioning UDFA players? Come on Slap.
                    Umm...you were the one who said there was a reason that Brown went in the fifth round and Holmes went in the first...

                    After that, if it's that much of a stretch to then say that there are reasons other players (on the same team) went undrafted, perhaps your aren't being as resonable as I originally thought...
                    Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                    Comment

                    • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                      Hall of Famer
                      • May 2008
                      • 3937

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Slapstick
                      Umm...you were the one who said there was a reason that Brown went in the fifth round and Holmes went in the first...

                      After that, if it's that much of a stretch to then say that there are reasons other players (on the same team) went undrafted, perhaps your aren't being as resonable as I originally thought...
                      I mentioned two WRs that were 5 rounds apart because of their skillset & abilities. Then you throw out an UDFA LB & RB? Where did that relate? You were all over the place...You lost me. My comments were in relation to the skills & limitations between Holmes & Brown when drafted. Your first comments was "Antonio Brown is more than fast enough to be the X in the Steelers offense". It wasn't the combine measureables that made the two 5 rounds apart. I'm being reasonable..Brown may or may not be a #1. He isn't there and he will have to prove he can be.

                      Comment

                      • Slapstick
                        Rookie
                        • May 2008
                        • 0

                        #56
                        Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                        Brown may or may not be a #1. He isn't there and he will have to prove he can be.
                        On that, I can agree...
                        Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                        Comment

                        • Chadman
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 6537

                          #57
                          He is paid like a #1 though.....



                          But Chadman won't bring up the argument on how good the deal was, or wasn't...
                          The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off, why should I?

                          Light up the darkness.

                          Comment

                          • ikestops85
                            Hall of Famer
                            • Jun 2008
                            • 3724

                            #58
                            I really get irritated when people talk about Wallace and think he is a good receiver only because of his speed. While Wallace has great speed his best asset is he knows how to use it. When you run a post it doesn't mean you go flat out top speed from the first step. That won't get you open in the NFL. If it did then Darrius Heyward Bey would be a superstar. I think he ran around a 4.25 for the forty and he is 6' 2" and over 200 pounds. By definition he should be a monster receiver. I don't know about anybody else but I wouldn't trade the remains of Limus Sweed for DHB.

                            How did a receiver like Jerry Rice get open deep with his 4.6 speed? The answer is he knew when and how to use the speed he has. Wallace also knows when and how to use his jets. No, I'm not saying he is in the class of Jerry Rice. I'm only using Rice as an example of how the slower guy can be successful just like I used DHB of an example of how a fast guy can fail. Wallace is more than just a fast receiver. He is a fast receiver that knows how to use his speed to get separation from the defenders.

                            I am a Wallace fan but didn't like the way he played this past year. The debate shouldn't be whether Wallace is a damn good receiver. He is. The debate should be whether he is worth the money he is asking for.
                            As many on this site think ... The Rooney's suck, Colbert sucks, Tomlin sucks, the coaches suck, and the players suck.

                            but Go Steelers!!!

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