Another Perspective On Our Defensive Line

[Oviedo]

It's about more than sacks. It's about controlling the line and getting pressure. Regardless, the point is that talented guys in the Steelers scheme do get sacks. No, they aren't putting up the numbers of a JJ Watt, but nobody really is. Justin Smith has never put up more than 8 sacks in a season, and he is widely regarded as among the best lineman in football - a reputation that he earned not in a 4-3, but after moving to a 3-4.

JJ Watt and Justin Smith are also allowed to go after the QB more in the way they run the 3-4 than our DEs. Not all 3-4 are the same. Some DLs are allowed to be more attack oriented than I think LeBeau has our guys playing.

[ikestops85]

Here is an interesting article on the comparison of the 4-3 vs the 3-4 on rushing the passer.

[URL="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1289011-showcasing-the-biggest-differences-in-the-4-3-and-3-4-pass-rush"]3-4 vs 4-3 comparison[/URL]

[fezziwig]

When the Steelers were the only one or one of the few teams that did the 3-4 they had better pickings at nose tackles of need or linemen/linebackers of need at the time. So many teams now run the 3-4 we no longer have the resources that are needed. Everyone wants the giant nose tackle and the gifted linebackers that fit the scheme.
Time to trade back to the 4-3 and many teams in my opinion now have a more difficult time adjusting to the 4-3.
I know, as long as Lebeau is around the 3-4 will be around. Things go in cycles and I believe the cycle of the 3-4 will soon wear itself out do to lack of players to fill the position.

[Oviedo]

When the Steelers were the only one or one of the few teams that did the 3-4 they had better pickings at nose tackles of need or linemen/linebackers of need at the time. So many teams now run the 3-4 we no longer have the resources that are needed. Everyone wants the giant nose tackle and the gifted linebackers that fit the scheme.
Time to trade back to the 4-3 and many teams in my opinion now have a more difficult time adjusting to the 4-3.
I know, as long as Lebeau is around the 3-4 will be around. Things go in cycles and I believe the cycle of the 3-4 will soon wear itself out do to lack of players to fill the position.

Like I have been saying. Be the change leader not the change follower.

[Chadman]

Like I have been saying. Be the change leader not the change follower.

Moving from a 3-4 to a 4-3 is hardly leading change.

The DL/pass rush struggles have gone hand-in-hand with the decline of Casey Hampton. NT is the key. Get a guy in there that commands a double team on every snap, and somewhere along the line you'll have either a DE or LB that is one-on-one or better, uncovered. If Cam Heyward plays up to his physical skills, then he'll also draw double blocking. That opens up everything.

Steelers DL at their prime had Hampton taking up 2 blockers, Smith taking up 2 blockers & Keisel taking 1 OT. No wonder the LB's were so dominant.

NT is the key to the 3-4, always has been.

[phillyesq]

JJ Watt and Justin Smith are also allowed to go after the QB more in the way they run the 3-4 than our DEs. Not all 3-4 are the same. Some DLs are allowed to be more attack oriented than I think LeBeau has our guys playing.

And despite that, Justin Smith has never had more than 8 sacks in a season. And in a base defense, yes, a DE in a single gap 3-4 will attack more. But on passing downs, the DEs are sent after the QB. At some point, you need to have the talent to get there.

[Slapstick]

And despite that, Justin Smith has never had more than 8 sacks in a season. And in a base defense, yes, a DE in a single gap 3-4 will attack more. But on passing downs, the DEs are sent after the QB. At some point, you need to have the talent to get there.

He has had more than 8 sacks, but not by much...

In five years in SF, he has averaged over six sacks per year...not unheard of in a single season for Steelers 3-4 DEs, but never such an number over the course of several years...Keisel averaged less than half that number over the last five years...

[aggiebones]

More than 5 sacks by a DE In our system is rare more than common. And if you look at all of the sex, there's probably a few quarterback fall downs or blown assignments to get +5. Keisel has been very good but not out of the gate. He was a backup for years I think. Are the young DEs getting better?
Yes, but Hood may never reach Smith status. And while he was regarded as very good, how many pro bowls did he win in his first 10yrs? He did his job quietly. Sacks and pro bowls aren't much notice of us having good DEs.

[phillyesq]

He has had more than 8 sacks, but not by much...

In five years in SF, he has averaged over six sacks per year...not unheard of in a single season for Steelers 3-4 DEs, but never such an number over the course of several years...Keisel averaged less than half that number over the last five years...

I stand corrected - he has never reached 9 sacks in a season. Apparently he has 2 with 8.5:

[URL]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitJu20.htm[/URL]

[phillyesq]

More than 5 sacks by a DE In our system is rare more than common. And if you look at all of the sex, there's probably a few quarterback fall downs or blown assignments to get +5. Keisel has been very good but not out of the gate. He was a backup for years I think. Are the young DEs getting better?

Hey now - this is a family board!!

[flippy]

Keisel's a good athlete for a DE, but he's still nowhere close to as good as Aaron Smith was. In that context, we've lowered the standard of performance on the DLine. We're comparing Hood and Heyward to Keisel's performance which is a step down from Smitty.

And we picked Hood and Heyward with first round picks. These guys need to be better than Smitty, otherwise, we're always gonna view them as a bit of a bust.

[Slapstick]

Keisel's a good athlete for a DE, but he's still nowhere close to as good as Aaron Smith was. In that context, we've lowered the standard of performance on the DLine. We're comparing Hood and Heyward to Keisel's performance which is a step down from Smitty.

And we picked Hood and Heyward with first round picks. These guys need to be better than Smitty, otherwise, we're always gonna view them as a bit of a bust.

Huh?

So, is any LB we draft going to be a bust because he isn't as good as James Harrison?

Smitty was an all-time great 3-4 DE...period...

[hawaiiansteel]

Ed Bouchette's Steelers chat transcript: 5.14.13

TUESDAY, 14 MAY 2013 WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE

Dsf: Last week I asked about Cam Heyward playing in a similar 3-4 at Ohio State, and you said that Heyward has not been playing b/c Keisel has been so good, but Gerry has commented that Heyward frequently looks lost and confused. Do you see that in Heyward as well?

Ed Bouchette: I've been told that Heyward is better than Ziggy Hood and will get a chance to unseat him this year.

dave: Do you know if Casey Hampton wants to keep playing? Would he be willing to come back as a backup?

Ed Bouchette: I believe Casey does want to keep playing, at least that is what he said at the end of the year (but then, so did Hines Ward at the end of 2011). I don't think the Steelers want him back.

Zack: If we don't play on resigning Ziggy, because he would be better in a 4-3 scheme, couldn't we look to trade him

Ed Bouchette: First, I don't know that they don't plan to re-sign him and, second, trades don't happen very often in this league, especially by the team you are talking about. I suppose they could trade him, but I don' t think they'd get a high pick for him.

JamesinNYC: Any chance they could flip Hood inside with McClendon moving to DE?

Ed Bouchette: I think Steve McLendon could do that, but I don't think they will at this stage of Ziggy's career.

[URL]http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/121190-ed-bouchettes-steelers-chat-transcript-51413[/URL]