Ed: Steelers Swung, Missed on OLBs in First Round

[BURGH86STEEL]

You capture the essence of why I have been arguing that we need to consider movingback to the 4-3. The talent pool we almost exclusively fished in ten years ago is too crowded with too many teams looking for the same types of players. There is no longer a margin of error with these "conversion projects." because we can't get as many as we use too. We can be far more successful getting players to come in and play the positions they have always played and more importnatly that they have been scouted playing than hoping a reeducation and retraining program has worked in a couple of years.

Probably half the teams in the league run the 4-3 and half run the 3-4. It might be more difficult to find pass rushers for the 4-3 then it is to find pass rushers that fit the 3-4 defense. Regardless of the scheme, they will faces the same issues getting premium pass rushers for whatever defense they decide to employ. Teams that run the 3-4 have more flexibility defending the pass and getting to the QB over teams that run the 4-3. Unless the Steelers can get their hands on a couple of dominant edge pass rushers I don't see them converting to the 4-3 defense.

[supersteeler]

Just a possibility we all are jumping to conclusions on Starks, that if he leaves we're in trouble. We don't know how Gilbert will play or Adams when they compete for that LT spot.
Did any of us see those two play there yet for several games? Yeah, they may not be that good early on but with playing time I would like to think they will get better and who knows, we may end up not regretting Starks leaving.
It would be nice to keep Max but they are going to another direction with the young guys thats why they were drafted, Starks knows his days are numbered he even said it.



The key for that line is staying healthy, then you get some continuity and most likely better O-line play. We have Beachum in the mix too and they still might sign Legs. Legursky can backup both Beachum if he gets the LG spot and Pouncey so he has some value and I thought he plays center decent.

These young guys are trying to get a foothold here and build their position to where they can excel I think they will be hungry for that opportunity and the focus strong.

[NorthCoast]

Just a possibility we all are jumping to conclusions on Starks, that if he leaves we're in trouble. We don't know how Gilbert will play or Adams when they compete for that LT spot.
Did any of us see those two play there yet for several games? Yeah, they may not be that good early on but with playing time I would like to think they will get better and who knows, we may end up not regretting Starks leaving.
It would be nice to keep Max but they are going to another direction with the young guys thats why they were drafted, Starks knows his days are numbered he even said it.



The key for that line is staying healthy, then you get some continuity and most likely better O-line play. We have Beachum in the mix too and they still might sign Legs. Legursky can backup both Beachum if he gets the LG spot and Pouncey so he has some value and I thought he plays center decent.

These young guys are trying to get a foothold here and build their position to where they can excel I think they will be hungry for that opportunity and the focus strong.

....thread hijacker....

[supersteeler]

....thread hijacker....

Really?

I think most of us would agree that not bringing back Starks is insane.

I was responding to your statement about starks, so where do you get thread hijacker?

[phillyesq]

Probably half the teams in the league run the 4-3 and half run the 3-4. It might be more difficult to find pass rushers for the 4-3 then it is to find pass rushers that fit the 3-4 defense. Regardless of the scheme, they will faces the same issues getting premium pass rushers for whatever defense they decide to employ. Teams that run the 3-4 have more flexibility defending the pass and getting to the QB over teams that run the 4-3. Unless the Steelers can get their hands on a couple of dominant edge pass rushers I don't see them converting to the 4-3 defense.

Salaries bear out that 4-3 DEs are more rare than 3-4 OLBs. I believe that the franchise tag for DEs is higher than any position other than QB; it is certainly higher than the tag for linebackers.

[Slapstick]

Salaries bear out that 4-3 DEs are more rare than 3-4 OLBs. I believe that the franchise tag for DEs is higher than any position other than QB; it is certainly higher than the tag for linebackers.

Given the proliferation of 3-4 defenses, with still more on the way, I expect that to change...

[Oviedo]

Salaries bear out that 4-3 DEs are more rare than 3-4 OLBs. I believe that the franchise tag for DEs is higher than any position other than QB; it is certainly higher than the tag for linebackers.

However, you discount the fact that when you have a greater talent pool of players coming out of the college ranks ready to play sooner you can avoid needing to "tag" players. Simple supply and demand. It is easier to get a college DE ready to play in the NFL than a college DE who is a multi-year conversion project to OLB.

I dare say that our own experience with the few successful OLB conversions would indicate we had to overpay to keep Woodley and Harrison and their performance no longer matches their contracts but because of the "risk" and time required to groom replacements we have placed ourselves at a disadvantage so we had no choice.

[phillyesq]

However, you discount the fact that when you have a greater talent pool of players coming out of the college ranks ready to play sooner you can avoid needing to "tag" players. Simple supply and demand. It is easier to get a college DE ready to play in the NFL than a college DE who is a multi-year conversion project to OLB.

I dare say that our own experience with the few successful OLB conversions would indicate we had to overpay to keep Woodley and Harrison and their performance no longer matches their contracts but because of the "risk" and time required to groom replacements we have placed ourselves at a disadvantage so we had no choice.

I discount the assertion that there is a greater talent pool of 4-3 DEs because there is no empirical evidence to support that assertion. First, it is difficult to find a DE with the explosiveness to rush the passer and the ability to stand up against the run. Second, many "natural" 4-3 DEs still take 2-3 years to adjust to the NFL game. I've broken down the successes of first round DEs and OLBs over the past few years previously and don't have the time to do it again, but basically, there is no support for your assertion that DEs contribute more quickly than do OLBs.

The tag number demonstrates the value of a position; not the need to tag. We'd all agree that QBs are the most rare and, thus, most valuable. Correspondingly, QBs have the highest tag values, while kickers and punters have the lowest.

To say that Woodley was overpayed is questionable; based on his performance to that point, it was a market value deal. Much less than Ware or Mario Williams received. Harrison was coming off of a DPOY season; those aren't the kind of guys you want to let walk. And a large part of the Steelers model is premised on retaining home grown talent.