Remember how we used to whine about Ben not being spoken of as an elite QB?

[lloydroid]

I honestly don't think we can make the case that he is among the best any longer. At one time, we used to gripe that all he did was win, and that he might not put up gaudy #s, but he was as good as any QBs when it came to winning.

Well, that may have been true at one time. But honestly, do you really think we can argue that Ben is as good as the following?

Brady. Stop it. It's not even close.

Rogers. No way.

Brees. No. He just isn't in his class.

Payton Manning. Look what he has done this year. No way is Ben in his class.

Matt Ryan.

And coming to a stadium near you, by next year.

RG3. By next year, Ben won't be as good as this guy.

Luck. Again, by next year, this guy will be superior to Ben.

Russell Wilson.

If you want to argue Ben is still top 10, I can see a case being made. But, honestly, I think the days of trying to sell him as a top 3-5 QB are over.

[supersteeler]

Brady 3 SB rings

Ben 2 SB rings
The rest?

[feltdizz]

WTF has Wilson, RGIII and Matt Ryan won or done to move them ahead of Ben?

[squidkid]

you forget stafford

[thor75]

I think he showed a little immaturity earlier in the season with his attitude toward the O.C. change. He has to realize the F.O. makes the decisions and he is the player. Accept the change and try to work harder for your 52 teammates. As for elite status, his perception took a hit this year for sure. I still have him ranked high.

[lloydroid]

I think he showed a little immaturity earlier in the season with his attitude toward the O.C. change. He has to realize the F.O. makes the decisions and he is the player. Accept the change and try to work harder for your 52 teammates. As for elite status, his perception took a hit this year for sure. I still have him ranked high.

Agree. But he is teetering

[pittpete]

Your posts are slightly amusing.....

[Sugar]

I think he showed a little immaturity earlier in the season with his attitude toward the O.C. change. He has to realize the F.O. makes the decisions and he is the player. Accept the change and try to work harder for your 52 teammates. As for elite status, his perception took a hit this year for sure. I still have him ranked high.

I guess I never saw this "immaturity" that others seemed to notice. He seemed to be level-headed and politically correct when he discussed the issue. Do any of us know what's going on in Ben's head or the locker room? Do we know that he didn't actually accept the change and work harder for his teammates?

[lloydroid]

Brady 3 SB rings

Ben 2 SB rings
The rest?

Yea, same # of rings as Eli Manning and one more than Tent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, and Jeff Hostetler.

[lloydroid]

I guess I never saw this "immaturity" that others seemed to notice. He seemed to be level-headed and politically correct when he discussed the issue. Do any of us know what's going on in Ben's head or the locker room? Do we know that he didn't actually accept the change and work harder for his teammates?

There are various forms of knowledge. There is the strict, court-case level of truth that you are kind of speaking of (Do we really know what's in Ben's head?) and then there is the common sense, read-between-the-lines kind of perceptions. You don't always have to have the court-case-level of "evidence" to know when something is true. What we do know, is that Ben threw Haley under the bus on his play calling after the Dallas loss, even though it was Bonehead Ben who through the awful, game-losing pic. Haley had nothing to do with that moronic decision to throw that pass with a CB just waiting for the ball. We can also conclude that his teammates are not all big fans; how can a franchise QB never be voted team MVP? I feel it is safe to say that Ben doing the sideline cheer leading is considered as fake by many of the players. Look at their faces and body language during Ben's little talks. I thought Ben would grow up this year. But playing carelessly is immature. You are being careless with games that mean the world to millions of people. He should take it far more serious than he does. He is talented, but be sloppy and careless negates much of that talent.

[Sugar]

There are various forms of knowledge. There is the strict, court-case level of truth that you are kind of speaking of (Do we really know what's in Ben's head?) and then there is the common sense, read-between-the-lines kind of perceptions. You don't always have to have the court-case-level of "evidence" to know when something is true. What we do know, is that Ben threw Haley under the bus on his play calling after the Dallas loss, even though it was Bonehead Ben who through the awful, game-losing pic. Haley had nothing to do with that moronic decision to throw that pass with a CB just waiting for the ball. We can also conclude that his teammates are not all big fans; how can a franchise QB never be voted team MVP? I feel it is safe to say that Ben doing the sideline cheer leading is considered as fake by many of the players. Look at their faces and body language during Ben's little talks. I thought Ben would grow up this year. But playing carelessly is immature. You are being careless with games that mean the world to millions of people. He should take it far more serious than he does. He is talented, but be sloppy and careless negates much of that talent.

I'm well aware of intuitive knowledge, but I'm also thinking you're seeing what you want to see there. Maybe the team never votes for him as MVP because he's the $100 million QB? I look at their body language and don't see anything like what you are talking about. As for the Dallas game, the DB who picked off Ben had played for Haley last season and was waiting on the play. It doesn't make it a good throw, but there was also a whole game prior to that overtime. Ben was probably not fully recovered, but is a competitor who was doing his best to play without making injury excuses. I still say an 80% Ben is better than a 100% Batch.

[DBR96A]

Matt Ryan.

He has a much better supporting cast on offense than Roethlisberger does. Roddy White and Julio Jones are wonderful weapons for a QB to have. It also helps that none of his offensive linemen average a false start or holding penalty per game, and they stay healthy too, for the most part.

Despite all that, he still finished this season with a lower TD percentage and a higher INT percentage than Roethlisberger did, and he's still never finished a season with a triple-digit passer rating. He did do something this season that Roethlisberger has never done, though: throw five INTs in one game.

Dude needs to put together multiple deep playoff runs and multiple regular seasons like the one he just had before I even entertain the thought of him being "elite."

[Shawn]

Geez, is this even worth responding to? Anyone who looks at Ben's numbers and career know he places favorably among the best in the game.

[Eich]

Geez, is this even worth responding to? Anyone who looks at Ben's numbers and career know he places favorably among the best in the game.

An 8-8 season and missing the playoffs brings out the hate. And it's the top guys that usually get the brunt of the criticism.

If we go 12-4 next year and win the Super Bowl, you'll have people saying they'll never have a bad thing to say about Ben ever again.

[papillon]

Okay, Ben isn't elite, but he is the quarterback of the Steelers for the next 6-7 years, so we'll just have to "suffer" with a non-elite quarterback and hope for the best.

Pappy