What a loss could accomplish.

[lloydroid]

Debate team? You are in High School aren't you?

Your points are so ridiculous and sensationalized, why even attempt to respond with rational clear points? That's not what you are really looking to do. You want attention and controversy.

Here comes that super funny high school zinger. ZIIIINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! You are so creative and witty, you'd make a killing doing stand up comedy. When you can't defend your assertions based on truth and content, you resort to the name calling. Weak, weak stuff. Do you make a living based on your opinions and thoughts?

[BigRob]

Here comes that super funny high school zinger. ZIIIINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! You are so creative and witty, you'd make a killing doing stand up comedy. When you can't defend your assertions based on truth and content, you resort to the name calling. Weak, weak stuff. Do you make a living based on your opinions and thoughts?

Actually I do. Like taking candy from a baby.

[Chadman]

Don't get me wrong, I will be rooting for the Steelers in this game. I can't help it. Now, that being said, I won't get upset or scream no matter what happens, because I realize the bigger picture here. But here is what a loss would accomplish.

1. Higher draft pick. Don't think a few picks here or there matters? Take a look at the draft and pay attention to what the 10 or 11 pick compares to the late teen picks.

[URL]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/draft.htm[/URL]

[URL]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2011/draft.htm[/URL]

It could be the difference between landing a JJ Watt instead of a Adrian Clayborn.

[URL]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/draft.htm[/URL]

It can make a huge difference. This game is meaningless. So the higher pick could be the difference between us getting a probowler vs. just a guy.

2. A loss will shake this team to the core. I want them woke up. I want Tomlin to feel heat to get his act together. I now hate seeing him on the sidelines winding up his head set or whatever. The cool act is old and stale. The team sucks in the focus and discipline dept. and that is his job. If he loses this game, he is going to feel the heat from all directions, like when he is out to dinner or grocery store. He is going to get some fire from the Rooneys and he needs it. He clownish, fumbling, bumbling ways need to change. He needs a wake up call.

3. A loss might just make Ben take this more seriously. He is still just a big kid. He is careless. He single-handily lost us key games that kept us out of the play offs - Cinci game, Dallas game, both games were lost because that moron was playing all foot loose and fancy free, throwing pics that lost the game.

"Hey I'm big Toms' son, I screw things up, but it's ok...".

Nothing impacts him. No worries. No accountability. And I, and most of the team, is just sick of it.

4. The loss will reinforce that they need to find a way to get the rushing game going. They have been FAIL. They suck at rushing the ball. It's time to take it seriously.

5. A loss will make them purge the team more and they need it. It is obvious that they have some poor characters players on this roster, and, even though I believe they will already be cleaning house, a loss to the Browns will make them clean deeper. And they need to.

All these points are bunkum.

Overall draft position is just a rediculous argument. There are just as many stories of players failing that were selected high as there are of success stories from later in the 1st round. It's about the quality of the scouting, the environment he player walks into, and how the player responds. It's irrelevant if they are picked 11th or 25th.

Having an 8-8 season compared to a 7-9 season isn't going o reduce any more 'heat' on Tomlin, or 'Shake the organisation' any less. The Steelers missed the playoffs- that's all the 'heated shakiness' this team & coach needs.

If Ben is, indeed, a reckless fool who cares little about the final result, as you are eluding to, then a 12 win season will mean no greater significance than a 7 win season, so winning 7 or 8 games will make no difference at all to Ben- using your theory on the mentality of Ben.

Bruce Arians lost his job because he didn't get he run game going. Pretty sure the Steelers are aware of he problem. 1 win more or less won't make that point any more accurate.

Missing the playoffs with 7 or 8 wins will make no difference to a player purge you are asking for. A 2 win season- that might get you a greater purge. There will be changes, mostly based on age and salary cap, so untie the knot in your panties and enjoy the offseason of discontent.

The only thing your points prove is that you want the highest draft pick you can get, and you react to disappointment by over reacting and wanting to throw everything out, intend of trying to see what parts are not working and why. Probably we you, like the rest of us, watch the Steelers instead of making the decisions for them.

no surprise to see squid kid agrees wholehearted with you though.

[lloydroid]

All these points are bunkum.

Overall draft position is just a rediculous argument. There are just as many stories of players failing that were selected high as there are of success stories from later in the 1st round. It's about the quality of the scouting, the environment he player walks into, and how the player responds. It's irrelevant if they are picked 11th or 25th.

Having an 8-8 season compared to a 7-9 season isn't going o reduce any more 'heat' on Tomlin, or 'Shake the organisation' any less. The Steelers missed the playoffs- that's all the 'heated shakiness' this team & coach needs.

If Ben is, indeed, a reckless fool who cares little about the final result, as you are eluding to, then a 12 win season will mean no greater significance than a 7 win season, so winning 7 or 8 games will make no difference at all to Ben- using your theory on the mentality of Ben.

Bruce Arians lost his job because he didn't get he run game going. Pretty sure the Steelers are aware of he problem. 1 win more or less won't make that point any more accurate.

Missing the playoffs with 7 or 8 wins will make no difference to a player purge you are asking for. A 2 win season- that might get you a greater purge. There will be changes, mostly based on age and salary cap, so untie the knot in your panties and enjoy the offseason of discontent.

The only thing your points prove is that you want the highest draft pick you can get, and you react to disappointment by over reacting and wanting to throw everything out, intend of trying to see what parts are not working and why. Probably we you, like the rest of us, watch the Steelers instead of making the decisions for them.

no surprise to see squid kid agrees wholehearted with you though.

It's possible you don't fully grasp the hatred between Pgh and the Browns. Losing at home to the Browns, and having been swept by Cleveland, will, in FACT, make the heat even hotter on Tomlin and the team in general. It's quite possible you don't fully understand the history of this rivalry. I am not talking about the last 20 years, as we have dominated them almost completely in that span (and I am guessing that is about your span of fan following). You have to go back to the 1970s and 1980s to realize how heated this rivalry is. There was actually a span in the 80s where the Browns were the superior team, back in the Shottenheimer, Bernie Kosar, Mack, Byner, Michael Dean Perry, Webster Slaughter, Ice cube McNeil, Claw Mathews, et al days. if Pgh losses this game, there will be an even more intensified attitude. 8-8 with a split with the Browns, vs. 7-9 with being swept by the Browns _IS_ a difference.

[NorthCoast]

Actually, the reason Herm isn't coaching in the NFL anymore is because he is a little too simplistic, as that quote confirms. Yea, you play to win the game, but sometimes losing leads to better long term futures. What if the Colts won a few more games last year? They wouldn't have Luck or RG3 and then how bright would their future look? Had they won a few more games, they would have ended up with a Matt Kalil or Justin Blackmon. How would their future look if that was the case? Horrid.

That's a slippery slope you are traveling down. Where does the line end? If a team has no wins at mid-season, do they mail the rest of the season in? 4 games left? 3 games left?
Sorry but I don't want to be a fan of a team like that. I prefer to root for a team that has integrity and respect for the game. Mailing ANY game in, is not respecting the game.

[BigRob]

It's possible you don't fully grasp the hatred between Pgh and the Browns. Losing at home to the Browns, and having been swept by Cleveland, will, in FACT, make the heat even hotter on Tomlin and the team in general. It's quite possible you don't fully understand the history of this rivalry. I am not talking about the last 20 years, as we have dominated them almost completely in that span (and I am guessing that is about your span of fan following). You have to go back to the 1970s and 1980s to realize how heated this rivalry is. There was actually a span in the 80s where the Browns were the superior team, back in the Shottenheimer, Bernie Kosar, Mack, Byner, Michael Dean Perry, Webster Slaughter, Ice cube McNeil, Claw Mathews, et al days. if Pgh losses this game, there will be an even more intensified attitude. 8-8 with a split with the Browns, vs. 7-9 with being swept by the Browns _IS_ a difference.

Wow, Chadman lays out the same counterpoints I did and you still ignore them. The Browns aren't a rival anymore than Seattle is a rival.

Our rivalry is with the Ravens. The heir to the old Cleveland franchise that left there.

[Chadman]

I'm aware of the rivalry. Pretty sure it'll make little difference to what the Rooney's think of the season result, however.

All that being said, this is a completely new argument to your original points.

[SS Laser]

The Browns rivalry became the Ravens rivalry. Were have you been? Also the players have to see a rivalry for there to really be one. After beating them so much there is no real rivalry for the players. I think it can again be a rivalry because of the new owner. And the Browns are getting better. But they need to whip us a few times also. I think you are stuck in the 70's and 80's.

[lloydroid]

That's a slippery slope you are traveling down. Where does the line end? If a team has no wins at mid-season, do they mail the rest of the season in? 4 games left? 3 games left?
Sorry but I don't want to be a fan of a team like that. I prefer to root for a team that has integrity and respect for the game. Mailing ANY game in, is not respecting the game.

I never said for them to not try. I merely factually listed the advantages of a loss; no where did I suggest the team not try. But if you think this team has been operating in the realm of integrity, you are way off. This team has been acting without integrity all season. You can't see that? Wallace doesn't even put in any effort most plays. Brown stood there in the end zone and failed to simply bend over or fall on a ball, giving SD a free TD. Mendenhall doesn't even show up for a game because he was pouting. Ben can't bother to care enough to not throw the ball to the other team, costing us games, just because he can't be bothered to notice defenders standing in the path of the pass. Sanders throws hissy fits on the sidelines because HE HIMSELF screwed up, and he acts worse than most children would. This team can't be bothered to focus enough to beat the very worst teams in the league, losing to teams like Oakland, Cleveland, SD and TN. You preach of integrity and you think this team has shown any this season? Maybe a few times, but more often than not, this team has been a stinking turd when it comes to integrity. Ben only seems to care after the fact. If he cared as much as he acts like AFTER losses, he would freaking wake up and not be so careless to begin with. This team is a hot mess, and has no integrity to begin with - not this year.

[lloydroid]

The Browns rivalry became the Ravens rivalry. Were have you been? Also the players have to see a rivalry for there to really be one. After beating them so much there is no real rivalry for the players. I think it can again be a rivalry because of the new owner. And the Browns are getting better. But they need to whip us a few times also. I think you are stuck in the 70's and 80's.

This just in: The Browns just beat us. The last time these two teams played, Cleveland was the better team. Yea, I agree we have owned them the last few decades, but that is soon ending. By next year, Cleveland will probably be the better team. They are on the rise, Pgh is in decline. That is why this team needs to clean house. Tomlin needs to wake his butt up. His "cool" act ain't cutting it anymore. Standing around spinning his whistle or head set ain't cutting it. I hope this off season is pure hell for him. Those of you who live in Pgh, you need to boo him every where you see him - in restaurants, in stores, on the street. Let him know running a team this sloppily isn't acceptable. Boo him where ever you see him. Let him know.

[lloydroid]

I'm aware of the rivalry. Pretty sure it'll make little difference to what the Rooney's think of the season result, however.

All that being said, this is a completely new argument to your original points.

No, go back and read how I said losing will help the team in the long run, however, I never said for them to lose on purpose. I merely stated how losing would help the team correct its current lazy, sloppy self. This team is a hot mess, losing to the likes of Cleveland, SD, TN and Oakland. That is a colossal embarrassment. And they should all feel sick to their stomachs about being so unfocused, sloppy and lazy. It is pathetic. Clean house. Do whatever needs to be done to get this team respectable instead of being the biggest embarrassment to the city - more embarrassing than the Pirates.

[NorthCoast]

No, go back and read how I said losing will help the team in the long run, however, I never said for them to lose on purpose. I merely stated how losing would help the team correct its current lazy, sloppy self. This team is a hot mess, losing to the likes of Cleveland, SD, TN and Oakland. That is a colossal embarrassment. And they should all feel sick to their stomachs about being so unfocused, sloppy and lazy. It is pathetic. Clean house. Do whatever needs to be done to get this team respectable instead of being the biggest embarrassment to the city - more embarrassing than the Pirates.

IMO, the only thing a loss "accomplishes" is that changes need to be made. But I think that was already very obvious before this last game is even played. Those changes are already likely in the planning stages if for no other reason than the salary cap will demand them. I will add that the Browns likely have a lot more motivation to win this game than the Steelers do. It is likely they are about to go through another coaching overhaul and a loss would probably seal the deal for Shurmur and Co.

[fordfixer]

I never said for them to not try. I merely factually listed the advantages of a loss; no where did I suggest the team not try.

.Yesterday, 12:24 PM #16 lloydroid



Yea screw pride. That was supposed to mean something when the games meant something. They were an embarrassment this year, so lose, and lose in disgrace, so some REAL changes will go down.

Sound familiar yet?

[lloydroid]

IMO, the only thing a loss "accomplishes" is that changes need to be made. But I think that was already very obvious before this last game is even played. Those changes are already likely in the planning stages if for no other reason than the salary cap will demand them. I will add that the Browns likely have a lot more motivation to win this game than the Steelers do. It is likely they are about to go through another coaching overhaul and a loss would probably seal the deal for Shurmur and Co.

I understand what you are saying, and most changes - the majority - were already in the works before this game is played. That being said, we would get a little higher draft pick, and sometimes that is the difference between getting a solid player vs. getting a perennial all pro player - a true difference maker. Also, word out of Cleveland is that they will be sitting a lot of their players for this game, and a complete house cleaning is going down Monday - entire coaching staff to be nuked. So much is going down on the Browns, that Vegas won't even give the game a line. I wondered why the line was OFF and now I know. It looks like Cleveland is going to just hand us a win though. And that is going to make our situation seem no where near as bad: 8-8 = a "non" losing season, and we won't be swept by the Browns, making the season more "digestible" but I don't want this pill to be any less jagged than possible; this team and coaching staff don't deserve anything but the most nauseating feeling as possible. They should literally want to throw up over this season. At least when Chuck Noll had bad seasons, it was from a lack of talent. This team doesn't have that excuse, losing to teams like the Browns, Titans, Chargers and Raiders. They should be embarrassed to be seen in public.

[lloydroid]

Sound familiar yet?

Yes, I wanted them to lose in disgrace; I still never said for the players to give up. I just want them to be in as much disgrace as possible. There is no saving this season with a meaningless win. They have already disgraced themselves completely, regardless of this game. They should be publicly ridiculed at every chance. I hope Ben and Tomlin get booed without mercy, any time they show their faces in public.