the season in a nutshell

[Chadman]

I agree with these points and it's getting depressing. The "tricky" crap is over. The waiting 3 years before a player can product on the field is moronic at this point. So much wasted talent on this team, because it is being mis-managed. Depressing

Who's talent is being wasted?

[Chadman]

I agree with this. Ben is living on a reputation that no longer matches reality. He is supposed to be clutch and instead he is garbage when we need him most. Take away his sloppy, bone head plays, and we win this game. I am sick of his sloppy BS. And then add in Tomlin's sloppy decision making (who makes a 56-yarder at Heinz, but the head coach isn't aware of it?) and you have the recipe for many losses. It's really broken at this point. Art better roll up his sleeves and get to work.

With all due respect- this is rubbish. Ben was going great before he got seriously hurt. When neither Batch or Leftwich instilled a great degree of confidence, Ben was rushed back in to start (as is what always seems to happen) & has looked out of sorts since then. Do we totally disregard the beginning of the year to emphasis your argument?

Of course, as Ben was doing great, the Defense was struggling. Now that the defense is playing well, Ben is struggling. It's been one of those sorts of years.

For all the 'blame' Ben deserves for his subpar games since his return- it's still the 8 fumble game & Brown's double-fumble brain meltdown that cost the Steelers 2 wins since Ben's return. You take away Brown's return-fumble & the Steelers beat the Cowboys. You take away the 8 fumbles vs the Browns, and you don't lose by 6 points.

You put 2 wins in the Steelers column, and how do the playoffs look?

[papillon]

With all due respect- this is rubbish. Ben was going great before he got seriously hurt. When neither Batch or Leftwich instilled a great degree of confidence, Ben was rushed back in to start (as is what always seems to happen) & has looked out of sorts since then. Do we totally disregard the beginning of the year to emphasis your argument?

Of course, as Ben was doing great, the Defense was struggling. Now that the defense is playing well, Ben is struggling. It's been one of those sorts of years.

For all the 'blame' Ben deserves for his subpar games since his return- it's still the 8 fumble game & Brown's double-fumble brain meltdown that cost the Steelers 2 wins since Ben's return. You take away Brown's return-fumble & the Steelers beat the Cowboys. You take away the 8 fumbles vs the Browns, and you don't lose by 6 points.

You put 2 wins in the Steelers column, and how do the playoffs look?

There's no use trying to convince those that believe Ben is nothing more than an average quarterback playing behind a great defense for the past 9 years as anything different, it's futile. This year alone through week 9 the media, fans and pundits had Ben in the MVP race and then the freak injury on what appeared to be an innocuous type tackle and the season spiraled out of control. If anything, it proves Ben's worth to the team rather than his lack of ability.

The same with the defense, now its not good enough to simply hold the other team to miniscule numbers of points, but they should be putting points on the board as the #1 defense in the NFL. If you're expecting points from the defense then you're admitting the offense has issues. The defense's job is to get the ball back to the offense without allowing points and regardless of where that puts the ball it then becomes the offense's job to score the points. Hoping for a pick 6, strip sack and score, blocked punt and score, etc is folly; stop the opponent from scoring and put your offense on the field, that's the goal. It's nice when that happens at midfield or in positive territory, but it shouldn't be a requirement of a good defense and that's what the Steelers had a good defense.

Some fans lose their marbles when things go south, fire Tomlin, Lebeau is old, Haley is an idiot (same fans that wanted Arians gone, now want Haley run out of town on a rail), Kugler gets the offensive linemen injured, etc, etc its the same old lament. Fortunately, the Steeler front office is smarter than all of us and hold the ship steady during these types of years which are far and few between.

Pappy

[Jooser]

Well to clarify my stance, I think Ben is a great QB, but I do maintain he's self-centered and has to get his way to be happy. If not, he's like a disgruntled 3 yr old bucking the world until things fall into place the way he wants them to. There's no argument he was having a good season prior to his injury, but he looks like a shell of himself since returning, and I don't exactly buy the reasoning for this is ALL the injury. His head isn't in it. He seems very distracted and has made some very poor decisions (i.e. holding the ball way too long and taking sacks and throwing INTs). So, to be fair, you live and die by him. By that reasoning, when he plays great, he's worthy of praise, but when he's playing like a bonehead, then he's worthy of criticism. One doesn't erase the other. The last three weeks, the whole team has come out and given a stinker effort, and Ben was among them. It's easy to misread one's true intentions when typing on a message board I suppose because there's no face of emotion or inflection of voice to measure the true meaning that one is trying to express, so I suppose I offer a bit of an apology for sounding off so harshly after the last month's debacle performances. If we beat the Browns then the season ends on a good note, but they'll have their hands full for sure.

-Joos out

[papillon]

Well to clarify my stance, I think Ben is a great QB, but I do maintain he's self-centered and has to get his way to be happy. If not, he's like a disgruntled 3 yr old bucking the world until things fall into place the way he wants them to. There's no argument he was having a good season prior to his injury, but he looks like a shell of himself since returning, and I don't exactly buy the reasoning for this is ALL the injury. His head isn't in it. He seems very distracted and has made some very poor decisions (i.e. holding the ball way too long and taking sacks and throwing INTs). So, to be fair, you live and die by him. By that reasoning, when he plays great, he's worthy of praise, but when he's playing like a bonehead, then he's worthy of criticism. One doesn't erase the other. The last three weeks, the whole team has come out and given a stinker effort, and Ben was among them. It's easy to misread one's true intentions when typing on a message board I suppose because there's no face of emotion or inflection of voice to measure the true meaning that one is trying to express, so I suppose I offer a bit of an apology for sounding off so harshly after the last month's debacle performances. If we beat the Browns then the season ends on a good note, but they'll have their hands full for sure.

-Joos out

My question would be: Why would he throw in the towel the second half of the season if it isn't injury related? I mentioned in another post the specific throws that caused him issues are the ones where his body may not be square to the target and he has turn at the waist and the try to deliver a pass horizontally. He appeared to have plenty of zip when facing downfield and stepping into the throw with his shoulders square to the target. It was those screens and quick hitches to the right or left that were bouncing to the receivers. These throws probably caused him pain since he couldn't square himself to make the throw, just my opinion of course.

Ben is a lot of things, but one thing I've never seen him do is give up, ever and I doubt we'll ever see it. it's too coincidental that his play after injury was less than stellar and he was in the MVP discussion prior.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

My question would be: Why would he throw in the towel the second half of the season if it isn't injury related? I mentioned in another post the specific throws that caused him issues are the ones where his body may not be square to the target and he has turn at the waist and the try to deliver a pass horizontally. He appeared to have plenty of zip when facing downfield and stepping into the throw with his shoulders square to the target. It was those screens and quick hitches to the right or left that were bouncing to the receivers. These throws probably caused him pain since he couldn't square himself to make the throw, just my opinion of course.

Ben is a lot of things, but one thing I've never seen him do is give up, ever and I doubt we'll ever see it. it's too coincidental that his play after injury was less than stellar and he was in the MVP discussion prior.

Pappy

None of us will ever know the true extent of Ben's injury on his playing psyche. If the rib injury was as serious as they said in the media, wouldn't it cause him to think that every time he turned, was hit, or move in the wrong manner it could permanently damage his heart... or even kill him? I think that would certainly weigh on me. Maybe the Steelers $100M investment forces him to think that even though injured, he still has to play to give the team the best chance to win. If Ben had never put together amazing game-winning drives, we would certainly have room to question him. But he, in fact, has proved he can do it.

Ben is the least of my worries on this team.

[lloydroid]

If Ben had never put together amazing game-winning drives, we would certainly have room to question him. But he, in fact, has proved he can do it.

He proved he can do it, yes. But he hasn't proven it as of late, so much. Since 2008, he hasn't quite lived up to his same game-saving heroics. How many times this season has he come up FAIL? Ben might not be our biggest worry, but his current state, all things considered, isn't without some concern, including his stature of team leader. I am sensing that there is a fracture in this team's unity, and some of it is stemming from #7. That is starting to emerge.

[NorthCoast]

He proved he can do it, yes. But he hasn't proven it as of late, so much. Since 2008, he hasn't quite lived up to his same game-saving heroics. How many times this season has he come up FAIL? Ben might not be our biggest worry, but his current state, all things considered, isn't without some concern, including his stature of team leader. I am sensing that there is a fracture in this team's unity, and some of it is stemming from #7. That is starting to emerge.

Selective memory.... apparently his 14 play 64 yd drive to win in Philly this season doesn't count.... or perhaps his 8 play 67 yd drive to win in Cincy... or maybe the 2 min drive last year in Indy for a field goal to win ?.... shall I continue??

[lloydroid]

Selective memory.... apparently his 14 play 64 yd drive to win in Philly this season doesn't count.... or perhaps his 8 play 67 yd drive to win in Cincy... or maybe the 2 min drive last year in Indy for a field goal to win ?.... shall I continue??

Yea, needing to work miracles to beat bad teams. Great. KC as well. They should have been up by 21 in most of those games. Needing miracles to beat bads teams isn't really what I was talking about here.