Pro Football Focus disagrees with you ****ers, says its not the LB'ers, agrees its DL

[Oviedo]

Aaron Smith averaged 31 tackles and 12 assists over the first ten years of his career (I excluded the last three in which injuries kept him ion the bench more than on the field) and in year 2 he had 4 sacks, 28 tackles and 14 assists. He was productive the moment he was inserted as the starter. The reason everyone believes it took a long time is because it took a long time for the media (Pittsburgh's included) noticed that he was a great player. No one even knew he replaced Orpheus Roye in 2000, because the position isn't glamorous. Fans only started to realize the impact he had when he wasn't in games and opponents had some success running the football.

So, Aaron Smith was productive in his career long before Ziggy is going to be productive. At this point, if we stretch productivity to new limits and consider Hood productive right now it has taken him twice as long as Aaron Smith to be productive, which is about right, because Smith is/was twice the player that Hood is right now.

And, remember, I'm not sure we can call Hood productive right now, he may not be productive until next year.

Pappy

Smith also had a very effective Hampton next to him. Hood doesn't have that and it no longer takes two men to control Hampton which means a Guard is free to help the OT with Hood.

[Shoe]

Smith also had a very effective Hampton next to him. Hood doesn't have that and it no longer takes two men to control Hampton which means a Guard is free to help the OT with Hood.

Even still, wouldn't you expect someone with his supposed strength/speed to blow up plays on occasion? Dee Dub made the point about the 3-4 and DL, which we all know. But you still have opportunity to distinguish yourself. You know how you do? By seeing a LB corp who always seems to be around the ball. It shows that you are correctly eating up blockers, for the LBs to flow. Do you see that with our current D?

What you see is holes, sometimes gaping, with maybe one guy running to the hole (i.e. not in position)... that's partly what makes people think our D is "old/slow". If he were exceling at his job, it would be tough to run on us. It was something I prided on watching our D. I haven't had that "pride" in a few years now TBH. (Looking back, it coincided with #91's demise.)

[D Rock]

Timmons came in to the league listed as being 6'1" and 234 lbs. I think those days are long gone. I also think the days of Timmons having the burst to put up 5-7 sacks, let alone do it as a part time player, are also gone.

[steelz09]

My comment about Timmons isn't specific to the Raiders game.

It's an opinion of his run defense throughout his entire career.

Like many here have previous stated, his best year was when he split time w/ Foote. Why do you think that is?

Is it because he had Farrior... a true 3-4 ILB playing next to him. Absolutely, that helped.

Let's not forget one simple fact. Foote played the majority of the time on 1st down. On 1st down, we are typically in our 3-4 base defense. 1st down is typically a "running down". It's not a big coincidence that Foote (the superior run defender) replaced Timmons on running downs in in our base 3-4 defense.

[Captain Crunch]

[/B]The Mcfadden run was on the DL as much as the linebackers. Soo, maybe get some contacts?[/QUOTE]


Also add "Mundane" Mundy to your list on that play...

[phillyesq]

Going back to Aaron Smith and Ziggy Hood, whether Aaron showed up on the stat sheet, you knew he was on the field. You saw him disrupting plays when he was single blocked or holding his ground when double teamed. Ziggy does not win individual matchups and gets absolutely blown up when doubled.

Look at McFadden's shorter TD run. Ziggy got blown back into the endzone. He allows the offense to move the line of scrimage.

[ikestops85]

Going back to Aaron Smith and Ziggy Hood, whether Aaron showed up on the stat sheet, you knew he was on the field. You saw him disrupting plays when he was single blocked or holding his ground when double teamed. Ziggy does not win individual matchups and gets absolutely blown up when doubled.

Look at McFadden's shorter TD run. Ziggy got blown back into the endzone. He allows the offense to move the line of scrimage.

I've been noticing the same thing about Keisel so far this year. I think his level of play has dropped tremendously. I'd almost like to see them start Woods, McClendon and Heyward.

[Slapstick]

I've been noticing the same thing about Keisel so far this year. I think his level of play has dropped tremendously. I'd almost like to see them start Woods, McClendon and Heyward.

For some reason, the gap integrity of the Steelers' D has disintegrated this year, when it used to be what the defense hung their hats upon...

[Captain Lemming]

But you still have opportunity to distinguish yourself. You know how you do? By seeing a LB corp who always seems to be around the ball. It shows that you are correctly eating up blockers, for the LBs to flow. Do you see that with our current D?

What you see is holes, sometimes gaping, with maybe one guy running to the hole (i.e. not in position)... that's partly what makes people think our D is "old/slow". If he were exceling at his job, it would be tough to run on us. It was something I prided on watching our D. I haven't had that "pride" in a few years now TBH. (Looking back, it coincided with #91's demise.)

I tire of the so called "experts" giving undue credit to the dline for the effectiveness of the run D. The best Steeler run defense during Smiths entire time here was a couple of seasons ago when Smith was out injured for 10 games. Hood started three quarters of that season and our run defense was never better.

Why? We had our two best tackling LBers of the decade Farrior and Harrison. Troy was DPOY. Harrison was third in DPOY voting that year. THOSE GUYS ARE GONE. Smith cant turn Mundy into Troy or those two bums into Harrison.

BC rarely WASTED high picks on DEs. Why? Elite linebackers are FAR more important to our D.

Smith, Kimo, Keisel, Roye......none were top three picks.

Let me continue on the credit Smith gets for our LBers play.
Dude is our LEFT DE
Porter and Harrison play right side in the base. Farrior our leading tackler, RIGHT ILB in the base.
Count up probowls by our Lbers, if the DE gets that credit, Kimo and Keisel are FAR BETTER than Smith.
We all know THAT aint true.

Smith in his prime produced his own numbers in excess of our right DEs THAT is why he is better. But he does not "make" our linebackers.
If he did Haggins and Foote would have been dominant when they played behind him

Our run D in 2010 was dominant with Hood starting most of the season. The problem with the run D aint just the DE

The difference aint the DE, the difference is that all pro talent LBER and safety talent (our actual playmakers) has been replaced by scrubs

[Slapstick]

I tire of the so called "experts" giving undue credit to the dline for the effectiveness of the run D. The best Steeler run defense during Smiths entire time here was a couple of seasons ago when Smith was out injured for 10 games. Hood started three quarters of that season and our run defense was never better.

Why? We had our two best tackling LBers of the decade Farrior and Harrison. Troy was DPOY. Harrison was third in DPOY voting that year. THOSE GUYS ARE GONE. Smith cant turn Mundy into Troy or those two bums into Harrison.

BC rarely WASTED high picks on DEs. Why? Elite linebackers are FAR more important to our D.

Smith, Kimo, Keisel, Roye......none were top three picks.

Let me continue on the credit Smith gets for our LBers play.
Dude is our LEFT DE
Porter and Harrison play right side in the base. Farrior our leading tackler, RIGHT ILB in the base.
Count up probowls by our Lbers, if the DE gets that credit, Kimo and Keisel are FAR BETTER than Smith.
We all know THAT aint true.

Smith in his prime produced his own numbers in excess of our right DEs THAT is why he is better. But he does not "make" our linebackers.
If he did Haggins and Foote would have been dominant when they played behind him

Our run D in 2010 was dominant with Hood starting most of the season. The problem with the run D aint just the DE

The difference aint the DE, the difference is that all pro talent LBER and safety talent (our actual playmakers) has been replaced by scrubs

In any case, this is exactly why the players on defense MUST PLAY THE SCHEME AS IT IS CALLED...

People say Lawrence Timmons sucked last year...I counter that, while he didn't make "splash plays", he did his job every time he was out on the field, regardless of which LB position he played...

If the Steelers D simply does what they are supposed to do, they can have similar results this year as last year...#1 in scoring D...

They achieved that last year, even with a lack of sacks and forced TOs...why?

Because they just played the scheme as it was called and didn't freelance or give up gap integrity...that crap leads to big plays...

With the way that Roethlisberger and the Steelers' offense are playing, not giving up big plays on defense will likely be enough...

[steelz09]

In any case, this is exactly why the players on defense MUST PLAY THE SCHEME AS IT IS CALLED...

People say Lawrence Timmons sucked last year...I counter that, while he didn't make "splash plays", he did his job every time he was out on the field, regardless of which LB position he played...

If the Steelers D simply does what they are supposed to do, they can have similar results this year as last year...#1 in scoring D...

They achieved that last year, even with a lack of sacks and forced TOs...why?

Because they just played the scheme as it was called and didn't freelance or give up gap integrity...that crap leads to big plays...

With the way that Roethlisberger and the Steelers' offense are playing, not giving up big plays on defense will likely be enough...

If Timmons was told to be a complete non-factor at OLB and below average at ILB then yup, he did exactly what he was told to do

[steelz09]

I tire of the so called "experts" giving undue credit to the dline for the effectiveness of the run D. The best Steeler run defense during Smiths entire time here was a couple of seasons ago when Smith was out injured for 10 games. Hood started three quarters of that season and our run defense was never better.

Why? We had our two best tackling LBers of the decade Farrior and Harrison. Troy was DPOY. Harrison was third in DPOY voting that year. THOSE GUYS ARE GONE. Smith cant turn Mundy into Troy or those two bums into Harrison.

BC rarely WASTED high picks on DEs. Why? Elite linebackers are FAR more important to our D.

Smith, Kimo, Keisel, Roye......none were top three picks.

Let me continue on the credit Smith gets for our LBers play.
Dude is our LEFT DE
Porter and Harrison play right side in the base. Farrior our leading tackler, RIGHT ILB in the base.
Count up probowls by our Lbers, if the DE gets that credit, Kimo and Keisel are FAR BETTER than Smith.
We all know THAT aint true.

Smith in his prime produced his own numbers in excess of our right DEs THAT is why he is better. But he does not "make" our linebackers.
If he did Haggins and Foote would have been dominant when they played behind him

Our run D in 2010 was dominant with Hood starting most of the season. The problem with the run D aint just the DE

The difference aint the DE, the difference is that all pro talent LBER and safety talent (our actual playmakers) has been replaced by scrubs

We used to be able to develop mid-to-late round picks into very solid starting DE. Now, we can't even develop a 1st round pick into a starter. Pathetic.

In his prime years, Foote was a backup for us. A solid backup. Now, he's older and slower (although never a speed demon) and our starter?!?! Pathetic. Outside of our bust 1st round pick, how has this team not developed ANYONE at ILB? Same could be said for S.

[Slapstick]

If Timmons was told to be a complete non-factor at OLB and below average at ILB then yup, he did exactly what he was told to do

If you say so...but, he wasn't f___ing the pooch and failing to maintain his gap integrity...

[Slapstick]

We used to be able to develop mid-to-late round picks into very solid starting DE. Now, we can't even develop a 1st round pick into a starter. Pathetic.

In his prime years, Foote was a backup for us. A solid backup. Now, he's older and slower (although never a speed demon) and our starter?!?! Pathetic. Outside of our bust 1st round pick, how has this team not developed ANYONE at ILB? Same could be said for S.

Foote was a starter in his prime years...he kept Kendrell Bell on the bench and then off the team...

[steelz09]

Foote was a starter in his prime years...he kept Kendrell Bell on the bench and then off the team...

I thought it was Bells injury problems that kept him off the field. Didn't Bell start as a rookie?