Ben was Huge for 3 Quarters

[stopplayn]

Anyone got elways stats when he won SB MVP?


How about Eli's 1st?

Post a Giant with Better stats than Eli like I did

[Slapstick]

I didnt change anything, I just added more evidence to the PILE that I have made in regards to our OFT sacked qb. You look for an "out' because you stepped in a big pile of doo doo and you cant get out and you need a way out. I understand.

Out of what? You didn't do anything...

[eniparadoxgma]

Good job comparing Rodgers' game last week to a game Ben played 4 years ago (but while we're here, in that game, Ben got sacked 8 times...the Iggles 9th sack was of Byron Leftwich).

If that's the Eagles game I'm thinking of the majority of those sacks were not on Ben. That one game sticks out in my memory as the worst performance by an O-Line I have ever seen...and that was one of the many years where our O-Line was very very bad.

[stopplayn]

If that's the Eagles game I'm thinking of the majority of those sacks were not on Ben. That one game sticks out in my memory as the worst performance by an O-Line I have ever seen...and that was one of the many years where our O-Line was very very bad.

Yeah, my bad the 9 sacks came against the Browns. The sacks are NEVER on Ben its always the line, the foot, the shoulder, Arians, the woman in vegas... Its funny the MOMMENT Ben went out the sack problem stopped. Leftwich was killing the blitz as we marched down the field. Not Saying Lefty is better (just smarter). Did you see that STUPID saftey Ben gave them? Yep the Lines fault, I get it

[NJ-STEELER]

Post a Giant with Better stats than Eli like I did

tuck and osi had 2 sacks each with the defense getting 6 total while holding the most prolific offense in NFL history to 14 points

[NJ-STEELER]

was it the safety where they had 7 in to block (miller and RB) and the eagles rushed 4 and still came thru like gang busters

yikes

[Slapstick]

Yeah, my bad the 9 sacks came against the Browns. The sacks are NEVER on Ben its always the line, the foot, the shoulder, Arians, the woman in vegas... Its funny the MOMMENT Ben went out the sack problem stopped. Leftwich was killing the blitz as we marched down the field. Not Saying Lefty is better (just smarter). Did you see that STUPID saftey Ben gave them? Yep the Lines fault, I get it

So, the negatives are all because of Ben, but the positive accomplishments (ie. SB wins) are all because of everybody on the team but Ben?

Sure, have it both ways...no one will notice...

[stopplayn]

tuck and osi had 2 sacks each with the defense getting 6 total while holding the most prolific offense in NFL history to 14 points

So two sacks warrants an MVP? Then by that standard then why arent you arguing for Deebo to be MVP in the SB? Sorry, I think Mannings last drive (yes it was a lot of luck involved) was more impressive. Then Eli did it again to show you he is the PRIMARY reason the Giants are elite

[stopplayn]

So, the negatives are all because of Ben, but the positive accomplishments (ie. SB wins) are all because of everybody on the team but Ben?

Sure, have it both ways...no one will notice...

Nice try Skip Bayless. I have repeatedly said BEN IS GOOD. That means he contributes to our wins, A LOT. He is just not the PRIMARY reason we are elite. The Defense is. This whold thread is textual proof of that statement. Sure you can TRY to dig up a bs arguement only to have me come back and dice you up again. Sucks huh?

[stopplayn]

was it the safety where they had 7 in to block (miller and RB) and the eagles rushed 4 and still came thru like gang busters

yikes

I posted the footage and we didnt max protect. Ben was just in a funk that night and couldnt process. The problem stopped immediately once a qb who can quickly read a D came in

[Slapstick]

First the backpedal...

Nice try Skip Bayless. I have repeatedly said BEN IS GOOD. That means he contributes to our wins, A LOT.

Then the change-up!!

He is just not the PRIMARY reason we are elite. The Defense is. This whold thread is textual proof of that statement. Sure you can TRY to dig up a bs arguement only to have me come back and dice you up again. Sucks huh?

Argument changed. Goalposts moved.

success-kid-meme-generator-mission-accomplished-03d1aa.jpg

[stopplayn]

In a debate, arguements change because OTHERS bring up different points. I am in this thread alone vs the whole board and you dont think that can derail an argument? Course not. Fact remains that I have consistently said that Ben is good and NOT elite. You dont like that statement NOR can you refute it so your next stance is to nit pick my arguments.

Why dont you TRY To prove that Ben is the PRIMARY reason we are ellte. YOU CANT. I have said Ben is good REPEATEDLY on this board (No changup) you just cant refute what I post and its a glaring reality. Palmer STILL Outplayed Ben in the 4th. FACT

[eniparadoxgma]

Yeah, my bad the 9 sacks came against the Browns.

Well, I was just responding to what Ruthless posted and I'm disregarding my own advice by responding to you...but what the hey. First, I was talking about the Eagles game. I really don't remember the Browns game you're referring to. However, if it was the same year as the Eagles game (that I was referring to) then I will say that the O-Line that season was about the worst I have ever seen it.

The sacks are NEVER on Ben its always the line, the foot, the shoulder, Arians, the woman in vegas...

I would appreciate it if you would clarify what you're trying to say here. My first instinct is to interpret your statement as meaning that I, and apparently a lot of people in your opinion cast a blind eye to Ben's fault and "NEVER" will put the blame for sacks on him. You then give a list of things people do blame sacks on other than our QB. I, personally, know that Ben is the cause of a lot of his sacks and have never hesitated to say so. What I did say was that in that particular Eagles game I believe the majority of the sacks were on the offensive line.

First, "the majority of" =\= "all" so even the specific statement I made proves you wrong. You are either employing a straw man argument intentionally or you are just incorrect. I would appreciate it if you would produce evidence that I, or any other poster on this board for that matter, have ever stated that Ben is not partly responsible for the amount of sacks he takes. I believe it is fairly obvious to anyone that might...dabble in watching football that Ben's playing style (extending plays when others don't, getting out of the pocket, holding onto the ball in order to try to make a play) is conducive to him taking more sacks than most other quarterbacks. Not sure who you're debating here...

Its funny the MOMMENT Ben went out the sack problem stopped.

*Moment. (I fully realize I'm a spelling nit)

Leftwich was killing the blitz as we marched down the field.

As I said, I don't recall this specific game.

Not Saying Lefty is better (just smarter).

What evidence do you have to back up your assertion?

Did you see that STUPID saftey Ben gave them?

I probably saw it, but I don't remember it. I can say though, that Ben sometimes makes what I consider bad (or you could say "stupid") decisions. There have been numerous times where I had no inkling what he was thinking when he threw a particular pass, or held onto the ball too long and took a sack, etc. Ben has his faults and he has his merits.

Yep the Lines fault, I get it

The line's fault? For what? The safety that I don't remember? Obviously *I'm* not saying that. I don't even remember the frigging play. So what do you "get"? I know what I get. I get a ringside seat for what I can only assume is you debating our friend the straw man.

Well, that was fun. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to kill some time.

[stopplayn]

It was on a Thursday Night on NFL Network (Browns). The line was bad? Then how come the line was great the MOMMENT Leftwich came in (Skins, Browns (2), Eagles) Wasnt it the SAME LINE?

In the Eagles game if the majority of the sacks were on the line then why did that SAME LINE block perfectly for Leftwich? I'll tell you why. Because Leftwich, Batch and Dixon STAY IN THE POCKET. Ben hurts himself by PREMATURELY leaving the pocket. The defender sees this and he moves with Ben but the Olinman can see where Ben is at. Makes it hard to block for. When a qb stays in the pocket the the lineman knows where he is at and its a joy to block for him (See Brady, Brees, Mannings etc) If Ben would STAY IN THE POCKET, he wouldnt have as many sacks.

What evidence do I have that Leftwich is smarter? When he is in he reads the defense AT THE LINE. He audibles, he hot routes and his sight adjustments are expert. I cited the Eagles game. I will also cite the Skins game as well. Ben was ineffective and getting sacked left and right. He got hurt and Lefty started the 3rd quarter. The sacks stopped, the line was great (Because he stays IN THE POCKET). Lefty made a sight adjustment at the line on the goalline and hit Santonio for a TD. Lefty recognized that the cb was playing off of tone, made a hand signal (hot route) to Tone. Tone ran a slant and the TD was there. You watch Lefty at the line and then you watch Ben. There are glaring differences. Not saying Lefty is better, JUST SMARTER. He also did the same sight adjustments vs the Browns (2nd game) when Ben was carted off to the ambulance (Again, sacks galore, Enter Leftwich and they stopped).

Now lets see. Browns, Skins, and Eagles games we have sacks galore. Take Ben out and they stop. Also, Dixon played for an injured Ben and passed TWENTY SIX times and wasnt sacked once VS THE RAVENS. Ben comes back for the 2nd Raven game and was sacked 4 times. We lost by three with Dixon and won by three with Ben. Yes Ben is better than Dixon (he sucks) but the sack problem only exists when Ben is playing. Batch started vs the Falcons and the Ravens and the sack problem was not a factor. Thats what evidence I have. They all get the ball out faster than Ben does but not better.

You dont remember the stupid saftey? I posted the link to the game. Check it out. Bonehead rookie mistake. GET RID OF THE BALL BEN!!!

[stopplayn]

Ben is tough, Ben is even clutch but he is not smart on the field. He has more physical tools than ANY QUARTERBACK IN THE GAME. But where Brady, Brees, Mannings, Rodgers, Rivers etc are better than him is in the MIND.

When experts talk about cerebral Quarterbacks they NEVER mention Ben for a reason. There is just so much he doesnt do at the line of scrimmage. Ben will point out who the Mike backer is (holds two arms out), this is setting his line adjustments. What Ben does NOT do is pre snap read the defense and make an adjustment to what he sees at the line. Ben will just go with the called play. What if the play wont work vs the D you are looking at? Its up to the qb to change that play to a better one. Peyton Manning is an EXPERT at this. Bruce Arians would never handcuff a cerebral guy like Manning. Manning would simply change the play to a better one.