Defensive Personnel: Cowher Superior

[RuthlessBurgher]

Agree with that....It isnt the round, its having an eye for talent and apparently Cowher was the one with that eye.

Tomlin hasn't had any Jamain Stephens/Troy Edwards first round total busts.

First round picks under Tomlin:
2012 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2011 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
2010 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
2009 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2008 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2007 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State

First round picks under Cowher:
2006 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State
2005 30 Heath Miller TE Virginia
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio)
2003 16 Troy Polamalu DB USC
2002 30 Kendall Simmons G Auburn
2001 19 Casey Hampton NT Texas
2000 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
1999 13 Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech
1998 26 Alan Faneca G Louisiana State
1997 24 Chad Scott CB Maryland
1996 29 Jamain Stephens T North Carolina A&T
1995 27 Mark Bruener TE Washington
1994 17 Charles Johnson WR Colorado
1993 23 Deon Figures CB Colorado
1992 11 Leon Searcy T Miami (Fla.)


I think Colbert's eye for first round talent (whether he is with Cowher or with Tomlin) is vastly superior to what Tom Donahoe did before him.

First round picks under Colbert:
2012 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2011 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
2010 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
2009 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2008 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2007 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
2006 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State
2005 30 Heath Miller TE Virginia
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio)
2003 16 Troy Polamalu DB USC
2002 30 Kendall Simmons G Auburn
2001 19 Casey Hampton NT Texas
2000 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State

First round picks under Donahoe:
1999 13 Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech
1998 26 Alan Faneca G Louisiana State
1997 24 Chad Scott CB Maryland
1996 29 Jamain Stephens T North Carolina A&T
1995 27 Mark Bruener TE Washington
1994 17 Charles Johnson WR Colorado
1993 23 Deon Figures CB Colorado
1992 11 Leon Searcy T Miami (Fla.)
1991 15 Huey Richardson LB Florida

[Oviedo]

Tomlin hasn't had any Jamain Stephens/Troy Edwards first round total busts.

First round picks under Tomlin:
2012 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2011 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
2010 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
2009 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2008 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2007 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State

First round picks under Cowher:
2006 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State
2005 30 Heath Miller TE Virginia
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio)
2003 16 Troy Polamalu DB USC
2002 30 Kendall Simmons G Auburn
2001 19 Casey Hampton NT Texas
2000 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
1999 13 Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech
1998 26 Alan Faneca G Louisiana State
1997 24 Chad Scott CB Maryland
1996 29 Jamain Stephens T North Carolina A&T
1995 27 Mark Bruener TE Washington
1994 17 Charles Johnson WR Colorado
1993 23 Deon Figures CB Colorado
1992 11 Leon Searcy T Miami (Fla.)


I think Colbert's eye for first round talent (whether he is with Cowher or with Tomlin) is vastly superior to what Tom Donahoe did before him.

First round picks under Colbert:
2012 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2011 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
2010 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
2009 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2008 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2007 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
2006 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State
2005 30 Heath Miller TE Virginia
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio)
2003 16 Troy Polamalu DB USC
2002 30 Kendall Simmons G Auburn
2001 19 Casey Hampton NT Texas
2000 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State

First round picks under Donahoe:
1999 13 Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech
1998 26 Alan Faneca G Louisiana State
1997 24 Chad Scott CB Maryland
1996 29 Jamain Stephens T North Carolina A&T
1995 27 Mark Bruener TE Washington
1994 17 Charles Johnson WR Colorado
1993 23 Deon Figures CB Colorado
1992 11 Leon Searcy T Miami (Fla.)
1991 15 Huey Richardson LB Florida

I also think on average Colbert was picking later in Round 1 than Donohoe. Five places in Round 1 can mean a lot with regards to the type of player you can get.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I also think on average Colbert was picking later in Round 1 than Donohoe. Five places in Round 1 can mean a lot with regards to the type of player you can get.

Donahoe's best picks tended to be the ones later in the first (Faneca 26th, Bruener 27th...an obvious exception is Stephens 29th) as opposed to his embarrassing earlier bust picks like Edwards 13th and Richardson 15th.

[steelz09]

The bottom line is our 1st round defensive talents named Timmons, Hood and Heyward aren't producing at a level we should be seeing. Everything else is just excuses.

[steelz09]

DL
----
Hood - A 1st rounder, hasn't been able to replace the Cowher-era production from Aaron Smith (4th round)
McClendon - Hasn't been able to replace the Cowher-era production of Hampton. NT has been a neglected position for too long by Tomlin and Colbert.
Keisel - A Cowher-era product. Before that, it was another Cowher-era product in Kimo. Heyward, a 1st rounder, hasn't been able to replace these 2 cowher-era players.

Linebackers
------------
Woodley- Tomlin's 2nd round pick WAS able to replace a Cowher-era player such as Haggans
Foote - A Cowher-era player that was unseated initially by Timmons but brought back. He's still a Cowher guy.
Timmons - Initially unseated Foote (see above). Timmons hasn't been able to replace Farrior production from the Cowher-era. He's going to get outplayed by Foote which is sad.
Harrison - Another Cowher-era player that wasn't able to unseat Joey Porter for the majority of Porter's career.. Harrison was able to replace Porter's production but Tomlin gets no credit here because he didn't develop Harrison. He was already developed and ready to play by Tomlin's first year.

Secondary
---------
Polamalu - Cowher-era player... Obviously, no one is ready to unseat him and we have ZERO safety depth.
Clark - Cowher-era signing.... No one is ready to unseat him either.... Again, ZERO safety depth.
Ike - Cowher-era product who has been our best CB for the past several years.
Lewis - A Tomlin product that finally cracked the starting lineup. The other starter was McFadden (William Gay was a nickle back except for 1 year) for several years.... another Cowher-era product.

If that's not a trend, I don't know what is........ As the Cowher players age and are replaced, so is our defensive production.

[Oviedo]

DL
----
Hood - A 1st rounder, hasn't been able to replace the Cowher-era production from Aaron Smith (4th round)
McClendon - Hasn't been able to replace the Cowher-era production of Hampton. NT has been a neglected position for too long by Tomlin and Colbert.
Keisel - A Cowher-era product. Before that, it was another Cowher-era product in Kimo. Heyward, a 1st rounder, hasn't been able to replace these 2 cowher-era players.

Linebackers
------------
Woodley- Tomlin's 2nd round pick WAS able to replace a Cowher-era player such as Haggans
Foote - A Cowher-era player that was unseated initially by Timmons but brought back. He's still a Cowher guy.
Timmons - Initially unseated Foote (see above). Timmons hasn't been able to replace Farrior production from the Cowher-era. He's going to get outplayed by Foote which is sad.
Harrison - Another Cowher-era player that wasn't able to unseat Joey Porter for the majority of Porter's career.. Harrison was able to replace Porter's production but Tomlin gets no credit here because he didn't develop Harrison. He was already developed and ready to play by Tomlin's first year.

Secondary
---------
Polamalu - Cowher-era player... Obviously, no one is ready to unseat him and we have ZERO safety depth.
Clark - Cowher-era signing.... No one is ready to unseat him either.... Again, ZERO safety depth.
Ike - Cowher-era product who has been our best CB for the past several years.
Lewis - A Tomlin product that finally cracked the starting lineup. The other starter was McFadden (William Gay was a nickle back except for 1 year) for several years.... another Cowher-era product.

If that's not a trend, I don't know what is........ As the Cowher players age and are replaced, so is our defensive production.

You make a really compelling case that the guy in charge of the defense isn't doing his job and developing players and should be fired.

[hawaiiansteel]

Agree with that....It isnt the round, its having an eye for talent and apparently Cowher was the one with that eye.

it was Cowher who fell in love with Alonzo Jackson...

[RuthlessBurgher]

Harrison - Another Cowher-era player that wasn't able to unseat Joey Porter for the majority of Porter's career.. Harrison was able to replace Porter's production but Tomlin gets no credit here because he didn't develop Harrison. He was already developed and ready to play by Tomlin's first year.

Harrison was a backup and a special teams player under Cowher. Cowher liked him so much he released him 3 times. It's understandable that a young Harrison wasn't starting at weakside OLB over Joey Porter in his prime, but Cowher continued to use Clark Freaking Haggans opposite of Porter for years while keeping Harrison on the bench. In 4 seasons under Cowher, Harrison had a total of 4 sacks. For comparison's sake, Jason Worilds (a pick that many people seem to hate because it wasn't Sean Lee), has 6 sacks in 2 seasons and 1 game so far. James Harrison didn't become JAMES DEEBO SILVERBACK HARRISON until Tomlin came to Pittsburgh...and had 54 sacks in the next 5 seasons (not to mention a defensive MVP award and one of the most remarkable defensive plays in Super Bowl history). Just because he came into the league under Cowher does not make him a Cowher player...he was essentially an afterthought under Cowher and a bona fide superstar under Tomlin.

[steelz09]

Harrison was already developed by the time Tomlin showed up. All Tomlin did was send Joey packing to Miami and move Harrison into the starting lineup. That's tough ... especially when it was obvious Harrison was ready for a starting job. Tomlin was no way, shape or form responsible for the development of Harrison.

And Tomlin shouldn't have let Joey walk. He should have kept Joey and Harrison.

The time is coming to an end where Tomlin can piggy back on Cowher's defensive players... and boy is it showing.

[SteelCrazy]

Harrison was already developed by the time Tomlin showed up. All Tomlin did was send Joey packing to Miami and move Harrison into the starting lineup. That's tough ... especially when it was obvious Harrison was ready for a starting job. Tomlin was no way, shape or form responsible for the development of Harrison.

And Tomlin shouldn't have let Joey walk. He should have kept Joey and Harrison.

The time is coming to an end where Tomlin can piggy back on Cowher's defensive players... and boy is it showing.

[SteelCrazy]

Just because Cowher didnt play Harrison doent mean he didnt develope him. He had the brains to pick him back up after cutting him. Clark Haggans is still in the league playing and starting for the 49ers, facing a suspension and is 35 years old. He is a good player, especially was when he was a Steeler.

[stopplayn]

Harrison was already developed by the time Tomlin showed up. All Tomlin did was send Joey packing to Miami and move Harrison into the starting lineup. That's tough ... especially when it was obvious Harrison was ready for a starting job. Tomlin was no way, shape or form responsible for the development of Harrison.

And Tomlin shouldn't have let Joey walk. He should have kept Joey and Harrison.

The time is coming to an end where Tomlin can piggy back on Cowher's defensive players... and boy is it showing.

When the defense is #1 rated (and it will certainly shine this season) then Lebeau gets all of the credit. When the Defense has a off game then all the blame goes to Tomlin. When the Steelers win its due to our franchise quarterback but when we lose is due to Tomlin.

I understand

[stopplayn]

Harrison was a backup and a special teams player under Cowher. Cowher liked him so much he released him 3 times. It's understandable that a young Harrison wasn't starting at weakside OLB over Joey Porter in his prime, but Cowher continued to use Clark Freaking Haggans opposite of Porter for years while keeping Harrison on the bench. In 4 seasons under Cowher, Harrison had a total of 4 sacks. For comparison's sake, Jason Worilds (a pick that many people seem to hate because it wasn't Sean Lee), has 6 sacks in 2 seasons and 1 game so far. James Harrison didn't become JAMES DEEBO SILVERBACK HARRISON until Tomlin came to Pittsburgh...and had 54 sacks in the next 5 seasons (not to mention a defensive MVP award and one of the most remarkable defensive plays in Super Bowl history). Just because he came into the league under Cowher does not make him a Cowher player...he was essentially an afterthought under Cowher and a bona fide superstar under Tomlin.

Now this is a sessssy post! +1000

[SteelCrazy]

Now this is a sessssy post! +1000

It's wrong though.....

[steelz09]

When the defense is #1 rated (and it will certainly shine this season) then Lebeau gets all of the credit. When the Defense has a off game then all the blame goes to Tomlin. When the Steelers win its due to our franchise quarterback but when we lose is due to Tomlin.

I understand

I'll include Lebeau in my criticism if it makes you feel better