Vincent Jackson: Impact on Wallace

[ikestops85]

If Antonio Brown starts the year as the flanker, I don't think he will continue to return punts and kicks as frequently...

You are correct. They already talked to Sanders about returning punts and kicks. They will probably only put Antonio back there in special situations ... much like they used to do with Woodson.

[Shawn]

I won't be thrilled if Wallace is not retained. But, I also do not like wrapping up all that money in a frail, duck footed receiver. I worry he will be injured. These pure speed guys often have short careers.

And that is where I am with all of this...we have several issues.

1) The amount of money MW will demand.
2) He is a pure speed guy, average hands, average route running but stupid speed. Those guys usually have very short careers unless they can learn to do other things well.
3) Next season we may lose him anyhow with no compensation. The Steelers will not pay him like a top 5 WR.

So, I will be doing flips if we can get a top 20 pick for Wallace. I believe Brown, Sanders, and Cotchery can be very effective.

With all of that said, if Wallace is willing to sign a reasonable contract...top 15 money this would be my preference. I just don't want to break the bank on him, and I don't want to lose him without significant compensation.

[feltdizz]

I heard the same argument with Ward and Burress...

After Burress was gone, Ward was still good...I believe it will be the same with Brown...

We always hear that argument.... we were predicted to go 0-4 once they suspended Ben, our running game would suffer without Aaron Smith... losing Burress and Holmes would expose us...

[Chadman]

Chadman hopes this remains a theoretical debate for years to come...

[williar]

I understand that fans want to maintain optimism in the case that we lose Wallace. I look at like this, Wallace is probably the ONLY player on our offense that puts any fear in defenses. I don't care if he is a one trick pony. Defenses are still going to respect that trick. Our receiving core without the threat of Wallace isn't going to scare anybody. Sanders is an injury waiting to happen. Miller is as slow and unathletic as a professional athlete can be and no one knows how Brown will emerge as a #1 receiver. Cotchery isn't the most durable either and he's only proven to be serviceable. Good luck with that.

[Slapstick]

I understand that fans want to maintain optimism in the case that we lose Wallace. I look at like this, Wallace is probably the ONLY player on our offense that puts any fear in defenses. I don't care if he is a one trick pony. Defenses are still going to respect that trick. Our receiving core without the threat of Wallace isn't going to scare anybody. Sanders is an injury waiting to happen. Miller is as slow and unathletic as a professional athlete can be and no one knows how Brown will emerge as a #1 receiver. Cotchery isn't the most durable either and he's only proven to be serviceable. Good luck with that.

While I can see your point, I have to disagree somewhat...

While teams may fear Wallace, what good does that do unless he catches the ball? And, please don't try to tell me that the only reason Brown was good is because teams were paying attention to Wallace...I heard the same arguments about Hines Ward after Plaxico went to NY...in the 5 years after Burress left, Ward averaged nearly 1,000 yards and 7 TDs per year...if Brown had success, it was because he's good...

While it's a nice luxury to have a player that threatens a defense, it's better to have players who execute consistently when called upon...while you may believe Heath Miller to be slow and unathletic somehow, he's a player who consistently steps up and delivers when his number is called...hopefully, with Todd Haley on record as a big fan of Miller, his number will be called more...

[Oviedo]

6-8 million dollar for Mike Wallace would be a good deal for Steelers. I hope Steelers sign him long term if Mike Wallace asking price is in 6-8 million dollars/yr range.

If you think that is a good deal, then what are you willing to pay Antonio Brown next season when he has another great season as both a receiver and returner. I'm pretty sure if his success of 2011 continues he will have a strong case to make at least as much as Wallace because he can do more.

My point is that $6-8M is a whole bunch of money to pay someone to draw coverage if he can't consistently beat the double coverage. The last half of last year showed he gets respectby drawing coverage but can any team afford to pay a decoy $6-8M?

[williar]

While I can see your point, I have to disagree somewhat...

While teams may fear Wallace, what good does that do unless he catches the ball? And, please don't try to tell me that the only reason Brown was good is because teams were paying attention to Wallace...I heard the same arguments about Hines Ward after Plaxico went to NY...in the 5 years after Burress left, Ward averaged nearly 1,000 yards and 7 TDs per year...if Brown had success, it was because he's good...

While it's a nice luxury to have a player that threatens a defense, it's better to have players who execute consistently when called upon...while you may believe Heath Miller to be slow and unathletic somehow, he's a player who consistently steps up and delivers when his number is called...hopefully, with Todd Haley on record as a big fan of Miller, his number will be called more...

Why do some of you think that Wallace can't catch the ball? I know he's dropped a few, what receiver hasn't. Jerry Rice dropped balls. I've seen enough of Mike Wallace to know that he is a reliable playmaker and only will get better as he and Ben get better timing. If we're fortunate enough to hold onto Wallace for another season, with Todd Haley running the offensive show(thank GOD!) and a full plethora of off season activities, I believe your going to see a much better, more polished version of Mike Wallace.

[Chadman]

The Plaxico leaving comparison is slightly skewed- when Plax & Ward were #1 & #2 WR's in pittsburgh- the focus on the Offense was on running the ball. The impact of losing Burress was not felt so badly because the Steelers didn't focus on using the passing game as much.

The same cannot be said for the Pittsburgh Steelers of 2011.

[ikestops85]

While I can see your point, I have to disagree somewhat...

While teams may fear Wallace, what good does that do unless he catches the ball? And, please don't try to tell me that the only reason Brown was good is because teams were paying attention to Wallace...I heard the same arguments about Hines Ward after Plaxico went to NY...in the 5 years after Burress left, Ward averaged nearly 1,000 yards and 7 TDs per year...if Brown had success, it was because he's good...

While it's a nice luxury to have a player that threatens a defense, it's better to have players who execute consistently when called upon...while you may believe Heath Miller to be slow and unathletic somehow, he's a player who consistently steps up and delivers when his number is called...hopefully, with Todd Haley on record as a big fan of Miller, his number will be called more...

Why do you think Wallace doesn't catch the ball? I think his hands are as good as Santonio when he was here and they are as good as AB's are. I don't know why people don't consider Wallace a top flight receiver. I guess I should say I don't know why Steeler fans don't consider Wallace a top flight receiver. Fans from other teams certainly think he is a top 10 receiver.

No, he doesn't have the hands of a Fitz or the physicality of both Johnsons (Andre and Calvin) but he does get open and when he catches the ball he can take it to the house. A lot is being made of his drop off in production the second half of last season but I think much of that had to do with Ben and his injuries. Look at the game Batch started and Wallace was back with 4 catches for over 80 yards. A nice average of 20 ypc.

I'm not going to say that Wallace made AB better. I think they both made each other better and each on his own merits are good receivers. They complement each other well. I've yet to hear Wallace say he wants top 5 money as a receiver so as long as he doesn't want us to break the bank it is a no brainer for us to sign him long term.

[phillyesq]

Many continue to miss the point of many on the Wallace subject. I have heard no one say they WANT Mike Wallace to leave. This discussion falls into two camps:

1. Those who think that the Steelers will resign Wallace, who many believe will want Top 5 WR money to the tune of $7-8M per year.
2. Those who don't think the Steelers will pay $7-8M per year on a WR and after next year we would lose Wallace for nothing but a comp pick in 2014.

Those in "1" are optimistic that the Steelers will do something they have never done for a WR because Wallace is such unique talent. Those in "2" don't think that they will and that getting a #1 to replace Wallace this year is far better than a comp pick in 2014. I think, and include me in this group, that those in "2" do want Wallace to stay but also think it is unlikely that if he does the Steelers will also be able to keep Antonio Brown who most in "2" believe is already a more complete player that Wallace. Because of his return capabilities in addition to his receiving capabilities, one could argue that Brown is actually more valauable.

I think that this really gets down to who do you think brings more total value on game day...Wallace or Brown. No one however has ever said they hope Wallace leaves.

As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a third option. Wallace plays this year on a tender and next on a tag. That's approximately $12 million for 2 years and keeps a top weapon on the offense. After that, maybe Wallce walks and the Steelers get a third round comp pick. Or maybe he is resigned long term. Even if he is tagged next year, he can still be traded.

If you can get a moderately high pick in the draft, I think you can consider letting Wallace leave. I'm less interested in a late first rounder. Would you let Wallace go for Ziggy Hood? I wouldn't.

[Oviedo]

As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a third option. Wallace plays this year on a tender and next on a tag. That's approximately $12 million for 2 years and keeps a top weapon on the offense. After that, maybe Wallce walks and the Steelers get a third round comp pick. Or maybe he is resigned long term. Even if he is tagged next year, he can still be traded.

If you can get a moderately high pick in the draft, I think you can consider letting Wallace leave. I'm less interested in a late first rounder. Would you let Wallace go for Ziggy Hood? I wouldn't.

For Ziggy alone...No. However, for Ziggy and another first round draft pick...ummmmmmm. Got to think about that one if I think I can't keep him long term.

Let me ask you this: Do you keep Wallace and risk losing Brown?

[williar]

Forgive me if I offend anyone, but I think that part of the reason many fans are so slanted toward WR's in general is that pervasive blue collar/pick up truck mentality that a lot of steeler fans have. I mean, it was the same way with Santonio, Plaxico, Nate Washington etc.. and now Wallace. A lot of fans have no use for WR's no matter how good they are. It's like, why do I need a ferrari when I can get there just the same with my blue, beat up truck with the hatch on the back.....Like, Wallace is too sleak and flashy to be a real steeler... His game does not represent "steeler football". Get rid of him so we can go out and draft a bunch of guards so we can protect Ben

[RuthlessBurgher]

I won't be happy if Wallace leaves (well, if someone like Minnesota feels the need for a deep threat and gives us the #3 pick, then I'll relent and accept Matt Kalil for Mike Wallace, but otherwise, I'd prefer to keep him). Some may consider Antonio Brown to be more "complete" than Wallace, but it is easier to replace that level of "complete" receiver than a guy who is truly elite in a particularly valuable aspect of football (deep speed to make big play TD catches). To say that Brown is more valuable because of the added dimension of return ability, that may have been true for this past season (hence the team MVP vote for Brown), but now that he is a full time starter, the team will not risk him on special teams on a regular basis (likely only special occassions, few and far between). I believe that this front office will be able to figure out a way to keep Wallace, Brown, and Pouncey on long-term deals within the next few seasons...have faith in the magic of Colbert & Khan...they have never lost a young, talented player that they truly wanted to keep.

That being said, Chadman's original post asked about what we could do if we got the #19 pick from Chicago, so I'll indulge with an idea (even though my ultimate preference would be keep Wallace). My sig indicates that I'd be willing to sacrifice our 2nd round pick to move up from #24 to get DeCastro. Well, with the #19 pick, the possibility could exist for us to keep that valuable 2nd round pick and use our 3rd round pick to move up from #19 to get DeCastro. Then we could possibly trade back from #24 to recoup the lost 3rd round pick in the DeCastro trade (actually getting a higher 3rd round pick than our original 3rd). We could possibly trade back with, say, Jacksonville, giving up our #24 pick in exchange for their 2nd and 3rd round picks. With Jacksonville's early 2nd rounder, take South Carolina WR Alshon Jeffery (since we now have a hole at wideout after losing Wallace). He's a different player than Wallace certainly and provides something that none of our other receivers offer (rather than a burner, you'd get a big-bodied guy who will fight for the ball and will be able to come down with fade passes for TD's while in the red zone). Then with our own 2nd round pick, take our NT of the future with Alameda Ta'Amu. And with our 3rd round pick from Jacksonville, we can upgrade our o-line even further with our RG of the future, Brandon Brooks from Miami of Ohio.

All told, that would give us a two-day haul of:

1.16 OG David DeCastro
2.38 WR Alshon Jeffery
2.56 NT Alameda Ta'Amu
3.71 OG Brandon Brooks

Our o-line of the future would be Gilbert-DeCastro-Pouncey-Brooks-Colon.
Our d-line of the future would be Heyward-Ta'Amu-Hood.
Our wideouts of the future would be Brown-Jeffery-Sanders-Cotchery.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Let me ask you this: Do you keep Wallace and risk losing Brown?

Yes, that is a risk that I would be willing to take (although I would bet that Colbert and Khan would be able to work out something to keep both of them).