Stop the Madness!!

[grotonsteel]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

You are crazy! Go look up Bowmans stats (143 tackles for 2011) and rewatch the 49r's Vs Steelers. He played very well without Willis while he was injured for 3 really 4 games.

They had a very good defence with 2 young ILB's. Interesting. Both almost ended up with 100 tackles. Willis had 97. Thanks for an idea to look them both up and compare.

Bowman had a great year. And Bowman is not a 1s Rd pick. If you think Wiliis does not help Bowman well it maybe true. I don't watch 49ers so closely.

My point is you don't need a 1st Rd ILB pick when you have a dominant ILB on your roster. Steelers already have one the team. Timmons. Steelers are paying Timmons top end money. Put a mid-round ILB besides Timmons and let young buck make plays.

[SS Laser]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Also Bowmen would not have been a 3 round guy without the off the field trouble. More like late 1st or early 2. So 2 high pick ILB's really. 49r's got lucky with him. Both were he was drafted and staying out of trouble.

Could we draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd for ILB, yep. But will he end up as good as Hightower? Could end up better.

Oh heres a good question. Would anyone take Bowman at 24 knowing how well he did this year? Also who would take Mike Wallace in the 1st rd now instead of the 3rd.

Anyway back to Dee Dubs love fest.

[Chadman]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Steelers fans are a funny breed.

"You don't need a 1st Round LB to get a good ILB", "You don't need a 1st round NT because he only plays 2 downs", "You don't need a 1st round WR/RB/TE/CB/FS"...etc, etc.


OK- you know what? You're all right- you DON'T 'need' a 1st round anything. There are numerous examples of lower round players doing the job of highly touted 1st Rounders.

So let's say what we really think- the Steelers should simply trade all their high picks away for multiple 5th/6th & 7th rounders- because that's all you really need.

So long as you're lucky, that is.

[SS Laser]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Steelers fans are a funny breed.

"You don't need a 1st Round LB to get a good ILB", "You don't need a 1st round NT because he only plays 2 downs", "You don't need a 1st round WR/RB/TE/CB/FS"...etc, etc.


OK- you know what? You're all right- you DON'T 'need' a 1st round anything. There are numerous examples of lower round players doing the job of highly touted 1st Rounders.

So let's say what we really think- the Steelers should simply trade all their high picks away for multiple 5th/6th & 7th rounders- because that's all you really need.

So long as you're lucky, that is.

:P

I also hope now that the steelers draft hightower so all the threads were worth it!

[pfelix73]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Well Dee, like I said earlier, you have me sold on Hightower. However, if both he and Poe are there at 24, I still think that Poe is the greater need and probably the BPA at that point. With Hokie retiring, they need big time help at NG. Not that they don't at ILB. Tough decision- but I'd lean Poe right now...or just freakin flip a coin on them...

[Dee Dub]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham

and then two things you hope for, one they transition to a 3-4, and two that you hope to get something out of them by year 2 if not year 3.

Neither one will get on the field in year one other than special teams.

How many Defensive players become starters in Lebeau's system in year one? Hardly any. Whether its Ziggy or Timmons or Heyward their learning curve is 2-3 years. Hightower too will be riding the pine for one year. He is not a Day One starter for Steelers barring any injuries to current Steelers LB corp.

Are you kidding me? When have the Steelers ever drafted a player who in college played in a similar 3-4 zone blitz? Why do you think this? Because LeBeau's 3-4 is more complexed that Saban's 3-4? It's very similar if not nearly identical. Dude I would suggest you wake up because the Steelers are very much interested in Dont'a Hightower. He's spoken with several Steeler scouts and meet with Tomlin and staff on Saturday night.

Anyone that is ok with James Farrior returning next season is asking for a huge hole in the middle of this defense. He is done.

[phillyesq]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Well, given that BOTH our current ILBs are former 1st Rd picks I'm not sure that holds true.

Foote and Earl Holmes were forth rounders. Chad Brown, Kirkland and Bell second rounders. Jerry O had a nice run, and while I can't remember where he was taken, it certainly wasn't the first.

[phillyesq]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

In the last 20 years, the Steelers have essentially made three boom or bust picks. One of those (Ben) worked very well; the other two (Troy Edwards and Jamain Stephens) did not.

Whenever you take guys from small schools, some boom and some bust (take Ike Taylor from Louisiana-LaFayette vs. Ricardo Colclough from Tusculum, for example...neither was a first rounder, but we struck gold with the guy we took in the 4th, and struck out with the guy we traded up for in the 2nd). With that said, however, I wouldn't necessarily put Ben and Poe in the same category as Stephens and Edwards. To wit:

Jamain Stephens went to North Carolina A & T...Division I-AA school (I suppose they call it the "Football Championship Subdivision" now as opposed to Division I-A's "Bowl Championship Subdivision", but whatever...same thing). Troy Edwards went to Louisiana Tech. Granted, that's where we got Terry Bradshaw too, but that was a different animal. When we drafted Edwards, La. Tech had only been in Division I-A for a decade...they were I-AA up to 1989.

That's different than Miami (OH) from the MAC, which has proven to be a respectable grounds for developing NFL talent, particularly at QB (although most of them are on our roster now...Ben, Byron, and Charlie are all MAC QB's...I'm shocked that we never signed Pennington near the end of his career). Memphis is no slouch either...they've been in Conference USA, and are moving to the Big East after this season. Mike Tomlin and Randy Fichtner coached there, DeAngelo Williams and Isaac Bruce played there, etc.

Fair points Ruthless. Perhaps the Jamaim Stephens / Troy Edwards comparisons weren't fair. In any event, I still see Poe as more of an athlete than a football player, and his significant bust potential is more risk than I am comfortable with in the first.

In any event, maybe your dream of DeCastro will come true.

[ikestops85]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Well Dee, like I said earlier, you have me sold on Hightower. However, if both he and Poe are there at 24, I still think that Poe is the greater need and probably the BPA at that point. With Hokie retiring, they need big time help at NG. Not that they don't at ILB. Tough decision- but I'd lean Poe right now...or just freakin flip a coin on them...

I would have trouble taking Poe. Give me a guy who has produced at the college level. Not the workout warrior.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

In any event, maybe your dream of DeCastro will come true.

Probably not...but until late April, I'll continue dreamin'!!!

[steelz09]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

Some are saying that Dont'a Hightower is too slow to be anything but a 2 down LB'er or that he is in adequate in coverage. This is not true. He was a 3 down back at Alabama in Nick Saban's 3-4 zone blitz and although he isnt great in coverage he is far from inadequate. If he isnt the guy you want the Steelers to draft, cool, but dont just make up stuff because about Hightower because he isnt your pick.

Here are some clips of him. Please watch them.

watch the 6 play on this clip. Hightower picks up the back in the flat and has him blanketed. Also you will notice that Hightower was used all over the place. Even off the edge as a DE.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E[/url]

These next clips all show how quick he plays. From the ILB spot he is able to get hits on these QB's. And they arent just hits. They are violent hits.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1OwO4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1O ... re=related[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xnsUuY&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xns ... re=related[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD-4c8&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD- ... re=related[/url]

Come on DD .... We all know evidence of him playing against the best and fastest teams in the country (SEC) isn't enough evidence to mitigate these concerns.

[Oviedo]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

In the last 20 years, the Steelers have essentially made three boom or bust picks. One of those (Ben) worked very well; the other two (Troy Edwards and Jamain Stephens) did not.

Whenever you take guys from small schools, some boom and some bust (take Ike Taylor from Louisiana-LaFayette vs. Ricardo Colclough from Tusculum, for example...neither was a first rounder, but we struck gold with the guy we took in the 4th, and struck out with the guy we traded up for in the 2nd). With that said, however, I wouldn't necessarily put Ben and Poe in the same category as Stephens and Edwards. To wit:

Jamain Stephens went to North Carolina A & T...Division I-AA school (I suppose they call it the "Football Championship Subdivision" now as opposed to Division I-A's "Bowl Championship Subdivision", but whatever...same thing). Troy Edwards went to Louisiana Tech. Granted, that's where we got Terry Bradshaw too, but that was a different animal. When we drafted Edwards, La. Tech had only been in Division I-A for a decade...they were I-AA up to 1989.

That's different than Miami (OH) from the MAC, which has proven to be a respectable grounds for developing NFL talent, particularly at QB (although most of them are on our roster now...Ben, Byron, and Charlie are all MAC QB's...I'm shocked that we never signed Pennington near the end of his career). Memphis is no slouch either...they've been in Conference USA, and are moving to the Big East after this season. Mike Tomlin and Randy Fichtner coached there, DeAngelo Williams and Isaac Bruce played there, etc.

Fair points Ruthless. Perhaps the Jamaim Stephens / Troy Edwards comparisons weren't fair. In any event, I still see Poe as more of an athlete than a football player, and his significant bust potential is more risk than I am comfortable with in the first.

In any event, maybe your dream of DeCastro will come true.

I also share your concern that Poe has huge bust or at best underperformer potential.

I also share the DeCastro dream. It would be so much easier if someone would just be helpful enough to sign Wallace as a RFA.

[steelz09]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E[/url]

I think the most impressive play in that clip is around the 1:54 mark. A perfect shed and tackle against the fastest RB (Chris Rainey-FL) in this years draft (based on combine unofficial results that I saw Rainey and L. James tied at a 4.37 I believe.).

Either way, it was impressive that he was able to read the play, take on the block, shed, and tackle a guy of Raineys speed as he was exploding through the hole... otherwise, that would have been a big play.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Stop the Madness!!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E[/url]

I think the most impressive play in that clip is around the 1:54 mark. A perfect shed and tackle against the fastest RB (Chris Rainey-FL) in this years draft (based on combine unofficial results that I saw Rainey and L. James tied at a 4.37 I believe.).

Either way, it was impressive that he was able to read the play, take on the block, shed, and tackle a guy of Raineys speed as he was exploding through the hole... otherwise, that would have been a big play.

Agreed.