Since 2007 Eli > Ben

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  • NorthCoast
    Legend
    • Sep 2008
    • 26636

    Since 2007 Eli > Ben

    Net yds per pass play, Eli has been better than Ben since 2007.

    Bottom line, Ben has not progressed as well as Eli in the passing game. I am hoping a new OC can kick Ben's behind and help him be a more efficient QB.
    Ben will not be able to continue taking the pounding he does every year without it affecting his playing time or performance.
  • hawaiiansteel
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 35649

    #2
    Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

    Originally posted by NorthCoast
    Net yds per pass play, Eli has been better than Ben since 2007.

    Bottom line, Ben has not progressed as well as Eli in the passing game. I am hoping a new OC can kick Ben's behind and help him be a more efficient QB.
    Ben will not be able to continue taking the pounding he does every year without it affecting his playing time or performance.

    yeah, but in Ben's defense Eli didn't have Bruce Arians calling the plays for him...

    Comment

    • Mister Pittsburgh
      Hall of Famer
      • Jul 2008
      • 3674

      #3
      Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

      Aaron Rodgers has progressed into an efficient QB as well. He used to be a lot like Ben.
      @_Hellgrammite

      Comment

      • NJ-STEELER
        Legend
        • May 2008
        • 12563

        #4
        Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

        eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
        better weapons at his disposal

        Comment

        • D Rock
          Hall of Famer
          • Dec 2008
          • 2797

          #5
          Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

          Originally posted by NJ-STEELER
          eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
          better weapons at his disposal

          Much better weapons for Eli?

          I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

          Now offensive lines...that's a different story.

          Comment

          • Steel Life
            Pro Bowler
            • May 2008
            • 1535

            #6
            Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

            Hasn't Eli led the league in interceptions twice? And one of those was just last year...hmmm.

            Feel free to be a prisoner of the moment but remember that Eli was only 8-8 this season & that the Giants got hot at the right time & were lucky to beat the 49ers.
            It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust & sweat & blood...

            Comment

            • Flasteel
              Hall of Famer
              • May 2008
              • 4004

              #7
              Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

              Originally posted by NorthCoast
              Net yds per pass play, Eli has been better than Ben since 2007.

              Bottom line, Ben has not progressed as well as Eli in the passing game. I am hoping a new OC can kick Ben's behind and help him be a more efficient QB.
              Ben will not be able to continue taking the pounding he does every year without it affecting his playing time or performance.
              They've both been up and down their entire career (in terms of efficiency), but because Eli started so low and Ben strarted off so well, it creates the impression that Eli has progressed more than Ben. I mean, it's actually true based on the numbers, But Ben has consistently played at a much higher level than Eli throughout his career. Below are both players' career passer rating numbers:

              Eli
              2004 55.4
              2005 75.9
              2006 77.0
              2007 73.9
              2008 86.4
              2009 93.1
              2010 85.3
              2011 92.9
              Career 82.1

              Ben
              2004 98.1
              2005 98.6
              2006 75.4
              2007 104.1
              2008 80.1
              2009 100.5
              2010 97.0
              2011 90.1
              Career 92.1

              The 2 years in bold represent statistical outliers, as compared to the rest of the player's career. For Manning, those 2 years happen to be above his career average, thus inflating his numbers somewhat.

              Now his passer rating is what it is, and while he does have an equally anomalous low rating his rookie year, he's a guy who typically shows up in the 70's or 80's. The only consecutive years where he trended upwards in rating, was between his 2nd and 3rd years.

              Ben has a couple outliers as well. In his case however, those numbers are far below the rest of his seasons. Ben has never trended upwards in consecutive seasons, painting the picture that he's more up and down than Manning...but only slightly.

              Since 2007, the Steelers as a team have been 55-25, while the Giants have been 49-31.

              I'm not sure what you're basing your argument on, but bottom line is that since 2007, Ben has clearly been the better quarterback.
              sigpic

              Comment

              • Silenetwolf

                #8
                Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                [quote=D Rock]
                Originally posted by "NJ-STEELER":29kw9eys
                eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
                better weapons at his disposal

                Much better weapons for Eli?

                I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

                Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:29kw9eys]

                There you go, I think it is unfair to compare Ben with any QB with the revolving door the Steelers front line has been.

                Comment

                • NJ-STEELER
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 12563

                  #9
                  Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                  [quote=D Rock]
                  Originally posted by "NJ-STEELER":37rb0318
                  eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
                  better weapons at his disposal

                  Much better weapons for Eli?

                  I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

                  Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:37rb0318]

                  by looking at the drafts, FA signings and trades from that point, its pretty clear that the giants have invested more

                  Comment

                  • D Rock
                    Hall of Famer
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 2797

                    #10
                    Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                    [quote=NJ-STEELER][quote="D Rock":2qkl4ulx]
                    Originally posted by "NJ-STEELER":2qkl4ulx
                    eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
                    better weapons at his disposal

                    Much better weapons for Eli?

                    I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

                    Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:2qkl4ulx]

                    by looking at the drafts, FA signings and trades from that point, its pretty clear that the giants have invested more[/quote:2qkl4ulx]


                    Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Isaac Redman

                    Plaxico Burress, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs


                    I'd say those are pretty comparable, if not slanted towards the Steelers.

                    Comment

                    • aggiebones
                      Pro Bowler
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 1427

                      #11
                      Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                      Better is a VERY loose term.
                      You are talking about a team game, not an individual game. Who's line is better? Who's WRs, who's running game? Who's defense takes more pressure off them. Which offense is more stat friendly?

                      Stats don't really say anything to those familiar with the game.

                      Comment

                      • NJ-STEELER
                        Legend
                        • May 2008
                        • 12563

                        #12
                        Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                        [quote=D Rock][quote="NJ-STEELER":2xmwj7mu][quote="D Rock":2xmwj7mu]
                        Originally posted by "NJ-STEELER":2xmwj7mu
                        eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
                        better weapons at his disposal

                        Much better weapons for Eli?

                        I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

                        Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:2xmwj7mu]

                        by looking at the drafts, FA signings and trades from that point, its pretty clear that the giants have invested more[/quote:2xmwj7mu]


                        Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Isaac Redman

                        Plaxico Burress, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs


                        I'd say those are pretty comparable, if not slanted towards the Steelers.[/quote:2xmwj7mu]
                        RBs, i'll give you

                        we chose to let 2 1st round WRs walk in free agency, the giants signed one of them

                        NYG already had shcoky until they saw boss was a capable replacement

                        smith 2nd rounder
                        nicks - 1st rounder
                        manningham- 2nd ronder
                        cruz - FA

                        versus

                        wallace and sanders - 3rd rders
                        brown -6th rounder


                        the giants FO has spent more assets on the passing game

                        Comment

                        • D Rock
                          Hall of Famer
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 2797

                          #13
                          Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                          I forgot Manningham. Now I know how the Patriots feel.

                          But even so, you've changed your tune from "has better weapons" to "FO has invested more in weapons"


                          It doesn't matter where they come from, just that they are there.

                          Comment

                          • steelblood
                            Hall of Famer
                            • May 2008
                            • 4166

                            #14
                            Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                            They are different types of QBs.

                            Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.
                            Even if Bill Belichick was getting an atomic wedgie, his face would look exactly the same.

                            Comment

                            • RuthlessBurgher
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 33208

                              #15
                              Re: Since 2007 Eli > Ben

                              Originally posted by steelblood
                              They are different types of QBs.

                              Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.
                              Wouldn't splitting hairs be good for you then? When you are done splitting hairs, you would have twice as many hairs!
                              Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                              Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                              We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                              We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                              Comment

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