Don't draft ILB in Round 1

[BigRob]

I am really beginning to like Bobby Wagner, James Michael-Johnson, and Audie Cole. I don't see a need to spend a pick on ILB in round 1, when there are so many good ILB in the draft this year.

I am realllllly liking Bobby Wagner from Utah State.

[Oviedo]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I wouldn't go ILB in Round 1 either. I would go OL or DL. If Ashlon Jeffrey was there at #24 that would really tempt me.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I am really beginning to like Bobby Wagner, James Michael-Johnson, and Audie Cole. I don't see a need to spend a pick on ILB in round 1, when there are so many good ILB in the draft this year.

I am realllllly liking Bobby Wagner from Utah State.

I do not agree with you. As appealing as Wagner, Michael-Johnson, and Cole may be and the value they bring in lower rounds, you will not get very much from them in year one and possibly year two. However if you draft Donta Hightower there is a chance he may come in on day one and be a starter. No one can tell me that Dick LeBeau's 3-4 is more complicated than Nick Saban's 3-4 is....Hightower excelled in it.

How many players that the Steelers can draft at 24 will give them a chance to get an immediate impact/return on their investment? I believe Hightower is one of the few.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I wouldn't go ILB in Round 1 either. I would go OL or DL. If Ashlon Jeffrey was there at #24 that would really tempt me.

Ok Ovi what O-line man or D-lineman at 24 would you draft that warrants that pick? Please list the ones that will be available at 24 not the ones who will go 5-10 picks prior.

And let me get this straight...you wouldnt draft a player at 24 (ILB-Donta Hightower), who fits a position of need and who has a chance to start at some point in year one but you would draft Alshon Jeffrey who doesnt fit an immediate need on the team at a position where the Steelers are set with 3 young starters? OK........

[BigRob]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I am really beginning to like Bobby Wagner, James Michael-Johnson, and Audie Cole. I don't see a need to spend a pick on ILB in round 1, when there are so many good ILB in the draft this year.

I am realllllly liking Bobby Wagner from Utah State.

I do not agree with you. As appealing as Wagner, Michael-Johnson, and Cole may be and the value they bring in lower rounds, you will not get very much from them in year one and possibly year two. However if you draft Donta Hightower there is a chance he may come in on day one and be a starter. No one can tell me that bad word LeBeau's 3-4 is more complicated than Nick Saban's 3-4 is....Hightower excelled in it.

How many players that the Steelers can draft at 24 will give them a chance to get an immediate impact/return on their investment? I believe Hightower is one of the few.

I will give you that Hightower may be able to start in the first year, but....

.....You are making a big, big assumption. You are assuming that Hightower will start.

Name me the last rookie on the defensive side of the ball to start in a Dick Lebeau coached defense? Not going to happen.

Secondly, I think you are giving short shrift to Audie Cole and Bobby Wagner as well. They are much more polished players than you are giving them credit for being. I think either one can be a start in year 2.

Go O-line, Safety, or D-line if someone falls in round 1. Or just go straight BPA no matter what the position of the player.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I will give you that Hightower may be able to start in the first year, but....

.....You are making a big, big assumption. You are assuming that Hightower will start.

Name me the last rookie on the defensive side of the ball to start in a bad word Lebeau coached defense? Not going to happen.

How many Steeler rookies drafted since LeBeau was defensive coordinator played in a similar 3-4 defense? Dont you think that may have something to do with it as well? No one can tell me Hightower will struggle with getting LeBeau 3-4 when he has already excelled in Saben's 3-4.

Secondly, I think you are giving short shrift to Audie Cole and Bobby Wagner as well. They are much more polished players than you are giving them credit for being. I think either one can be a start in year 2.

Rob for the same reason you give about rookies not being able to start in LeBeu's defense is the same reason I dont think you will get much out of these guys in years 1 and possible even year 2. These guys didnt come from a 3-4 zone blitz defense.

[BigRob]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I will give you that Hightower may be able to start in the first year, but....

.....You are making a big, big assumption. You are assuming that Hightower will start.

Name me the last rookie on the defensive side of the ball to start in a bad word Lebeau coached defense? Not going to happen.

How many Steeler rookies drafted since LeBeau was defensive coordinator played in a similar 3-4 defense? Dont you think that may have something to do with it as well? No one can tell me Hightower will struggle with getting LeBeau 3-4 when he has already excelled in Saben's 3-4.

Secondly, I think you are giving short shrift to Audie Cole and Bobby Wagner as well. They are much more polished players than you are giving them credit for being. I think either one can be a start in year 2.

Rob for the same reason you give about rookies not being able to start in LeBeu's defense is the same reason I dont think you will get much out of these guys in years 1 and possible even year 2. These guys didnt come from a 3-4 zone blitz defense.

Most guys don't play in a 3-4 in college, but still get drafted high by 3-4 teams. I don't think you can draft a player in round 1 that is not value because he played in a 3-4 in college.

I think there is better value with either Cole, Wagner, or maybe even Lavonte David after the first round. Give them a year to learn the system and they will be just as good as Hightower or better in the 3-4. I have concerns Hightower will be purely a 2 down 3-4 ILB. I think that limits us defensively.

[BigRob]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

[url="http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2012-senior-bowl-tuesday-north-practice-notes.html"]http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/ar ... notes.html[/url]

-The clearcut most athletic linebacker here was Bobby Wagner of Utah State. He was very quick, smooth, and by far the most balanced in quick linebacker drills, and showed some great initial burst and quick rush moves in pass rushing drills. He didn't always show great explosion or power on film, so I'm curious to see if he can drive through traffic this week. But he sure looked the part based on drills and vs. the running backs today.

-James Michael Johnson was a bit stiff and high today in his quick linebacker drills (the same ones Bobby Wagner wowed in), and doesn't look like he transitions well in his breaks cleanly, a concern I had from film. He did show great power and some natural rush moves in pass rushing drills today however. He has the power and size of a great inside linebacker, no question, but he'll need to show a complete game to be a top three rounder. '

-Audie Cole of NC State was far more fluid and smooth as an athlete than I thought he would be. He wasn't anything outstanding or rare, but if he can move like that in drills, it shows he's more than just a very tall, lanky, somewhat position-less linebacker and could really develop into something. Nebraska linebacker Lavonte David was so forceful today in drills, vs. running backs, and in team play today. It's hard not to really like him on film because he's got great reactions, explosions well, and continously is around the ball.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

Big Rob I'm not picking on you but watch this clip of Audie Cole in North Carolina's 4-3 and tell me that he is going to give greater value than Donta' Hightower.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3j41bQfk8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3j41bQfk8[/url]

He takes poor angles, get's lost in traffic, isnt very good in coverage (reaction to the pass), isnt very quick side line to side line, and unless he is clean to the ball carrier struggles getting off his blocks.

Now I am not saying Audie Cole doesnt have some ability, because he does. But this is versus Louisville, not SEC football. And to think Cole wont struggle to get LeBeau's 3-4 and be a few years away from contributing would be wrong in my opinion.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I will give you that Hightower may be able to start in the first year, but....

.....You are making a big, big assumption. You are assuming that Hightower will start.

Name me the last rookie on the defensive side of the ball to start in a bad word Lebeau coached defense? Not going to happen.

How many Steeler rookies drafted since LeBeau was defensive coordinator played in a similar 3-4 defense? Dont you think that may have something to do with it as well? No one can tell me Hightower will struggle with getting LeBeau 3-4 when he has already excelled in Saben's 3-4.

Secondly, I think you are giving short shrift to Audie Cole and Bobby Wagner as well. They are much more polished players than you are giving them credit for being. I think either one can be a start in year 2.

Rob for the same reason you give about rookies not being able to start in LeBeu's defense is the same reason I dont think you will get much out of these guys in years 1 and possible even year 2. These guys didnt come from a 3-4 zone blitz defense.

does saban run a ZB scheme??

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

Most guys don't play in a 3-4 in college, but still get drafted high by 3-4 teams. I don't think you can draft a player in round 1 that is not value because he played in a 3-4 in college.

You are forgetting the fact that Hightower excelled in his teams 3-4. And the fact that he was one of the best defensive players in all of college football in probably the best conferences in college football. I think that warrants a first round grade to me. Now keep in mind when I suggested drafting Hightower number for the Steelers it was before they were eliminated by Denver. It was with the thought they would be drafting 32.

[BigRob]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

Big Rob I'm not picking on you but watch this clip of Audie Cole in North Carolina's 4-3 and tell me that he is going to give greater value than Donta' Hightower.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3j41bQfk8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3j41bQfk8[/url]

He takes poor angles, get's lost in traffic, isnt very good in coverage (reaction to the pass), isnt very quick side line to side line, and unless he is clean to the ball carrier struggles getting off his blocks.

Now I am not saying Audie Cole doesnt have some ability, because he does. But this is versus Louisville, not SEC football. And to think Cole wont struggle to get LeBeau's 3-4 and be a few years away from contributing would be wrong in my opinion.

I don't think you are picking on me. I like discussions like these. They are healthy.

I just think you are over valuing Donte Hightower. He is not head and shoulders above Bobby Wagner, Cole, or Michael Johnson to me. I could definitely be wrong.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

[quote=NJ-STEELER]

I will give you that Hightower may be able to start in the first year, but....

.....You are making a big, big assumption. You are assuming that Hightower will start.

Name me the last rookie on the defensive side of the ball to start in a bad word Lebeau coached defense? Not going to happen.

How many Steeler rookies drafted since LeBeau was defensive coordinator played in a similar 3-4 defense? Dont you think that may have something to do with it as well? No one can tell me Hightower will struggle with getting LeBeau 3-4 when he has already excelled in Saben's 3-4.

Secondly, I think you are giving short shrift to Audie Cole and Bobby Wagner as well. They are much more polished players than you are giving them credit for being. I think either one can be a start in year 2.

Rob for the same reason you give about rookies not being able to start in LeBeu's defense is the same reason I dont think you will get much out of these guys in years 1 and possible even year 2. These guys didnt come from a 3-4 zone blitz defense.

does saban run a ZB scheme??[/quote:3kto43sb]

Yes he does. He runs several variations of the 3-4.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

I just think you are over valuing Donte Hightower. He is not head and shoulders above Bobby Wagner, Cole, or Michael Johnson to me. I could definitely be wrong.

But you are missing the point. Hightower will be i(head and shoulders above them), in the Steelers 3-4 defense. And he will get on the field years before those guys do.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Don't draft ILB in Round 1

Here's a great article (link), about Saban's defense and how he explains their philosophy.

“[Our] philosophy on first and second down is to stop the run and play good zone pass defense. We will occasionally play man-to-man and blitz in this situation. On third down, we will primarily play man-to-man and mix-in some zone and blitzes. We will rush four or more players versus the pass about ninety-percent of the time.

“In all situations, we will defend the inside or middle of the field first – defend inside to outside. Against the run, we will not allow the ball to be run inside. We want to force the ball outside. Against the pass, we will not allow the ball to be thrown deep down the middle or inside. We want to force the ball to be thrown short and/or outside.

“… Finally, our job is to take the ball away from the opponents’ offense and score or set up good field position for our offense. We must knock the ball loose, force mistakes, and cause turnovers. Turnovers and making big plays win games. We will be alert and aggressive and take advantage of every opportunity to come up with the ball . . . . The trademark of our defense will be effort, toughness, and no mental mistakes regarding score or situation in any game.”

[url="http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/06/repost-preview-of-nick-sabans-alabama.html"]http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/ ... abama.html[/url]

I would recommend everyone reading this complete article. Good stuff.