Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

[focosteeler]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

I am not sure you need to force feed Hood to much. If his is still listed at 300 I bet it is 10 or 20lbs higher, maybe more if he was told he wll play more NT this season. With his strength that is enough weight I think. Does our NT really need to be 350?

Also Mclendon looks bigger then 280 but not a big belly guy. I bet he is 300 or so now. But I agree grab another NT in this draft later on. See if he can be coached up grow into it.

Sorry to derail your thread Chadman! Waiting on the CB's.

oops I assumed he was like 280 or something. Thats me, not reading whats right in front of me saying he was 300lbs at the combine

BTW Chadman.... the info in this thread is amazing

[SS Laser]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

This thread is by far and away the BEST draft thread EVER. Thanks Chadman!

Still waiting on the other big uglies! And CB's. Come on Chadman!

[Chadman]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

CB's next...soon...

Thank you for the praise guys- Chadman enjoys this sort of thread- just lots of stats to sift through & find the ones you want to work with.

Before it's all said & done, we'll look at draft trends under Tomlin/Colbert, draft trends in the first round, FA moves & then, in the end- Chadman will try to put together a mock draft using everything we find out in this thread. We're learning together- most of this stuff Chadman just finds out before typing- no real prior knowledge.

Anything you want to include, feel free- glad for extra information to be added.

[Slapstick]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

If the Steelers do slide Hood in the lineup at NT, where I think he would perform even better than at the 5-tech DE, then the idea of a 2-down thumper at ILB becomes less of a bad idea...In the last few years, Farrior played at a lot lighter weight at ILB than I ever thought he would, but with Casey at the nose, it made sense...

[Chadman]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

If the Steelers do slide Hood in the lineup at NT, where I think he would perform even better than at the 5-tech DE, then the idea of a 2-down thumper at ILB becomes less of a bad idea...In the last few years, Farrior played at a lot lighter weight at ILB than I ever thought he would, but with Casey at the nose, it made sense...

The other argument is if the Steelers adopt a more penetrating front 3, they could get more athletic pass defenders in behind them instead of having to blitz any of the front 7 all the time...

[Slapstick]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

The other argument is if the Steelers adopt a more penetrating front 3, they could get more athletic pass defenders in behind them instead of having to blitz any of the front 7 all the time...

But I'm not referring to blitzing...I'm referring to solidifying the interior run defense behind a more penetrating NT as opposed to a "roadblock" NT...

Sending a more penetrating NT after the QB might create pressure, but would leave the D more vulnerable to running plays and misdirection plays like draws...

Having an ILB smart enough to read and react properly and tough enough to fill the hole and/or make a sure tackle quickly would be an asset in that case...

Just saying...

[Chadman]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

The other argument is if the Steelers adopt a more penetrating front 3, they could get more athletic pass defenders in behind them instead of having to blitz any of the front 7 all the time...

But I'm not referring to blitzing...I'm referring to solidifying the interior run defense behind a more penetrating NT as opposed to a "roadblock" NT...

Sending a more penetrating NT after the QB might create pressure, but would leave the D more vulnerable to running plays and misdirection plays like draws...

Having an ILB smart enough to read and react properly and tough enough to fill the hole and/or make a sure tackle quickly would be an asset in that case...

Just saying...

Not disagreeing with you- it's a good theory.

[Chadman]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

Alright, alright...here we go- CB's:

Since the Colbert-Tomlin marriage started, the Steelers have drafted a number of CB's. Let's see if we can find a common thread throuhg the years...

2007
CB William Gay
5'10" 187lbs
40-Yard-4.48
Bench- 16 Reps
Vertical- 38.5"
Broad- 9'10"
3-Cone- 6.89
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.15

2009
CB Joe Burnett
5'10" 192lbs
40-Yard- 4.58
Bench- 22 Reps
Vertical- 35.5"
Broad- 9'10"
3-Cone- 6.68
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.25

CB Keenan Lewis
6'1" 195lbs
40-Yard- 4.47
Bench- 19 Reps
Vertical- 33.5"
Broad- 10'03"
3-Cone- 6.89
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.42

2010
CB Crezdon Butler
6'0" 191lbs
40-Yard- 4.43
Bench- 17 Reps
Vertical- 39.5"
Broad- 10'01"
3-Cone- 7.08
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.23

2011
CB Cortez Allen
6'1" 197lbs
40-Yard- 4.51
Bench- 18 Reps
Vertical- 35.5"
Broad- 10'09"
3-Cone- 6.76
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.01

CB Curtis Brown
6'0" 185lbs
40-Yard- 4.51
Bench- 10 reps
Vertical- 39.5"
Broad- 10'08"
3-Cone- 6.59
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.00


So...what can we work out? Well, firstly- size. The first 2 CB's on the list were 5'10". Every other CB since then has been at the 6'0" range. The trend is, the Steelers are looking more & more for the taller CB- not too tall, mind you. Let's say that 6'0" and 6'1" are ideal. We'll accept 5'11".

Weight- that 190lbs range appears about right. We'll give them 5lbs either way as variance.

Speed- Ok, surprisingly- speed doesn't appear to be a huge factor. The mid 4.4's seems about right- not slow, but certainly not blazing either. We'll discount Joe Burnett's 4.58. It would seem logical that the Steelers wouldn't turn their nose up from faster than 4.4- but it doesn't seem to be a deciding factor either.

Strength- Benching around the 20 mark seems about right- discounting Curtis Brown's paltry 10 reps.

Vertical- Here we see a measurement that seems important to the Steelers. 33.5" from Keenan Lewis is the lowest recorded for a Steeler draft pick- we'll use that as our cut-off as every other jump was higher (sometimes significantly).

Broad- It would seem around 10' looks like the target.

3-Cone- Another stat that seems important. Crezdon Butler's 7.+ was the anomoly. It would seem sub-7.0 is the target.

20 Yard- When Keenan Lewis' 4.42 is your highest mark, we'll be safe in assuming this is an important target for the Steelers. We'll speculate that the 4.3 mark is about the target range.

[Chadman]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

So, Jimmy Ideal- the perfect Steelers CB would look like this..

6'0" 190lbs
40-Yard- 4.45
Bench- 20 Reps
Vertical- 37"
Broad- 10'00"
3-Cone- 6.6
20 Yard- 4.1

We'll take variants either side, but only slight to limit just how many names Chadman has to put down..

CB's that pass the 40-Yard at the Combine:
Josh Robinson 4.33
Ron Brooks- 4.37
Stephon Gilmore- 4.40
Coty Sensabaugh- 4.42
Dwight Bentley- 4.43
Janoris Jenkins- 4.46
Jayron Hosely- 4.47
Asa Jackson- 4.49

CB's that pass the Bench (Target- Approx 15-20):
Omar Bolden 24 Reps
Jamell Fleming 23 Reps
Antonio Fenelus 20 Reps
Jeremy Jones- 20 Reps
Justin Bethel- 19 Reps
Casey Heyward- 19 Reps
Asa Jackson- 19 Reps
Trumaine Johnson- 19 Reps
Charles Brown- 18 Reps
Trevin Wade- 18 Reps
D'Anton Lynn- 17 Reps
Chaz Powell- 17 Reps
Josh Robinson- 17 Reps
Terrence Fredrick- 16 Reps
Stephon Gilmore- 15 Reps
Leonard Johnson- 15 Reps
Coty Sensabaugh- 15 Reps

Vertical Jump of 37" (Thereabouts)
Justin Bethel 39.5"
Josh Robinson 38.5"
Ron Brooks 38"
Alfonzo Dennard 37"
Coryell Judie 37"
Coty Sensabaugh 37"
Antwuan Reed 36.5"
Stephon Gilmore 36"
Mike Harris 36"
Cliff Harris 36"
Charles Brown 35.5"
Trumaine Johnson 35.5"
Terrence Frederick 35"

Broad Jump of 10'00" (120" or so)
Josh Robinson 133"
Justin Bethel 131"
Coryell Judie 126"
Jamell Fleming 125"
Josh Norman 124"
Antwuan Reed 124"
Stephon Gilmore 124"
Trumaine Johnson 122"
Coty Sensabaugh 122"
Alfonzo Dennard 121"
Terrence Frederick 121"
Janoris Jenkins 121"
Chaz Powell 121"
Ryan Steed 121"
Ron Brooks 120"
Leonard Johnson 120"
Dre Kirkpatrick 120"
Casey Heyward 119"
Asa Jackson 118"
Cliff Harris 118"
Morris Claiborne 118"
Mike Harris 117"

3-Cone Drill at around 6.6 seconds..(7 seconds cut-off)
Josh Robinson 6.55
Terrence Frederick 6.59
Coty Sensabaugh 6.60
Stephon Gilmore 6.61
Robert Blanton 6.71
Jamell Fleming 6.71
Casey Heyward 6.76
Justin Bethel 6.79
Cliff Harris 6.79
Antonio Fenelus 6.80
Mike Harris 6.81
Chaz Powell 6.84
Trevin Wade 6.87
Charles Brown 6.94
Ryan Steed 6.94
Janoris Jackson 6.95
Leonard Johnson 6.96
Asa Jackson 6.97
Dwight Bentley 6.99

20 Yard Shuttle at 4.1 Seconds (There abouts..)
Casey Heyward 3.90
Stephon Gilmore 3.94
Robert Blanton 3.97
Jamell Fleming 3.97
Josh Robinson 3.97
Trevin Wade 4.00
Terrence Frederick 4.03
Asa Jackson 4.03
Charles Brown 4.06
Coty Sensabaugh 4.06
Mike Harris 4.07
Morris Claiborne 4.12
Janoris Jackson 4.13
Trumaine Johnson 4.15
Leonard Johnson 4.15
Chaz Powell 4.16
Cliff Harris 4.19
Antonio Fenelus 4.2
Antwuan Reed 4.2
Ryan Steed 4.22

[Shawn]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

We are covered at NT in the 3-4???

Hoke - Broken Neck (not really but jacked up neck to point he has to retire)
Snack - ACL & OLD
McLendon - Unproven
Hood - Unproven at NT

I think we need to draft a NT in the first 3...seems there are some quality prospects available this year.

Covered is a bad word. But, I would agree it's less of a need than ILB and OG.

[Oviedo]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

The other argument is if the Steelers adopt a more penetrating front 3, they could get more athletic pass defenders in behind them instead of having to blitz any of the front 7 all the time...

But I'm not referring to blitzing...I'm referring to solidifying the interior run defense behind a more penetrating NT as opposed to a "roadblock" NT...

Sending a more penetrating NT after the QB might create pressure, but would leave the D more vulnerable to running plays and misdirection plays like draws...

Having an ILB smart enough to read and react properly and tough enough to fill the hole and/or make a sure tackle quickly would be an asset in that case...

Just saying...

A penetrating DL is music to my ears but won't happen with the stubborn conductor of our defensive orchestra.

There is no down side to attacking and disrupting because it forces the opponents to react to you instead of you reacting to the opponent.

[Slapstick]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

But, it isn't...

While LeBeau preferred to have Hampton in the lineup, the defense did not miss a beat during Hoke's starts...and Hoke absolutely did not play NT the same way as Hampton...

If you give LeBeau Hood at NT, he will make it work...

Also, I never understood the idea of drafting unproven commodities because you feel that the players that you have on your roster, that you see in games every week, that coaches see in practice every day, are somehow unproven...

McClendon played in 7 games in 2010 and 14 games in 2011...before that, he spent a year on the practice squad...McClendon is proven...

However, if NT can possibly benefit from an upgrade at the position, that is a different story...and that is the gamble that is the draft...

[Oviedo]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

But, it isn't...

While LeBeau preferred to have Hampton in the lineup, the defense did not miss a beat during Hoke's starts...and Hoke absolutely did not play NT the same way as Hampton...

If you give LeBeau Hood at NT, he will make it work...

Also, I never understood the idea of drafting unproven commodities because you feel that the players that you have on your roster, that you see in games every week, that coaches see in practice every day, are somehow unproven...

McClendon played in 7 games in 2010 and 14 games in 2011...before that, he spent a year on the practice squad...McClendon is proven...

However, if NT can possibly benefit from an upgrade at the position, that is a different story...and that is the gamble that is the draft...

I agree about McLendon. I too think he is proven and I prefer his style of playing the NT over Hampton's "roadblock" style.

[Chadman]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

S the names highlighted in green on the CB lists are the guys that pased our "Steelers Ratio" at each position. Chadman has attached extended lists because so many players were 'just off'- so we are not excluding them completely, just pointing out they don't pass every criteria.

If we sift through the lists & use history as our guide- the following players may be of MOST interest to the Steelers:

Josh Robinson- Round 3
Central Florida
5'10" 195lbs (Willie Gay!)
40- 4.33
Bench- 17
Vertical- 38.5"
Broad- 133"
3-Cone- 6.55
20 Yard- 3.97

Stephon Gilmore- Round 2 (Maybe Round 1)
South Carolina
6'0" 190lbs (Ideal!!)
40- 4.40
Bench- 15
Vertical- 36"
Broad- 123"
3-Cone- 6.61
20 Yard- 3.94

Coty Sensabaugh- Round 6-7
Clemson
5'11" 189lbs
40- 4.42
Bench- 15
Vertical- 37"
Broad- 122"
3-Cone- 6.60
20 Yard- 4.06

Asa Jackson- Round 5-6
Cal-Poly
5'10" 191lbs
40- 4.49
Bench- 19
Vertical- 34.5"
Broad- 118"
3-Cone- 6.97
20 Yard- 4.03

Jamell Fleming- Round 3
Oklahoma
5'11" 206lbs
40- 4.53
Bench- 23
Vertical- 34"
Broad- 125"
3-Cone- 6.71
20 Yard- 3.97

[Slapstick]

Re: Chadman's 2012 Off-season Free Agency & Draft thread

Now, which CBs are willing tacklers?

Because that's the "intangible" criteria that the Steelers CBs need...