Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

[Jigawatts]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

In Marinos day you were allowed to separate the ball from the receiver, not so much
today unless you want to forfeit $25,000 and make a trip to NYC so Mr. Goodell
can tell you that it's not acceptable to play football like that anymore.

I guess at 32 you can call me a younger fan (maybe I don't qualify unless I wear skinny
jeans) but I'm not a big fan of the way the game is played today. I'd rather see a 16-13
ladders and chairs match than a 42-35 shoot out.

And I absolutely hate fantasy football. How anyone can cheer for a player on a hated
team is beyond me.

p.s. - Sorry fantasy nerds. Please don't tell your mom that I made fun of you.

[rockonsteel]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

And I absolutely hate fantasy football. How anyone can cheer for a player on a hated
team is beyond me.

p.s. - Sorry fantasy nerds. Please don't tell your mom that I made fun of you.

Fantasy football is doing it's best to ruin real football.

Rockon

[tiproast]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

Maybe I'm wrong about Marino, but I'm going from memory and it seems he was always chucking the ball, but that could be because of the times and all other teams relying on the run makes it seem he was throwing the ball a lot more than he was really. I know he had a great OL that protected him very well.

The more comments I read the more I'm swayed to believe Marino could have done better under today's rules. Maybe 5088 yards.

In 1984, the Dolphins passed 572 times, and ran 484. That's a difference of 88 - on average they passed about 5-6 more times than they ran each game.

The 2011 Saints are much more unbalanced. Through 15 games, they've passed 624 times and rushed 396. That's a difference of 228 - which mean that they average 15 more passing plays than run plays every game.

The 2011 Steelers will finish about where the 1984 Dolphins did in terms of balance - right now they have 101 more pass plays than run plays.

The 2011 Patriots are more unbalanced than the 1984 Dolphins, but less unbalanced than the 2011 Saints (about 170 more passes than runs so far).

[DukieBoy]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

Maybe I'm wrong about Marino, but I'm going from memory and it seems he was always chucking the ball, but that could be because of the times and all other teams relying on the run makes it seem he was throwing the ball a lot more than he was really. I know he had a great OL that protected him very well.

The more comments I read the more I'm swayed to believe Marino could have done better under today's rules. Maybe 5088 yards.

In 1984, the Dolphins passed 572 times, and ran 484. That's a difference of 88 - on average they passed about 5-6 more times than they ran each game.

The 2011 Saints are much more unbalanced. Through 15 games, they've passed 624 times and rushed 396. That's a difference of 228 - which mean that they average 15 more passing plays than run plays every game.

The 2011 Steelers will finish about where the 1984 Dolphins did in terms of balance - right now they have 101 more pass plays than run plays.

The 2011 Patriots are more unbalanced than the 1984 Dolphins, but less unbalanced than the 2011 Saints (about 170 more passes than runs so far).

Good info, thanks. Do you have YPA on the QB's involved. YPA would add some interest to the comparisons of Marino, Brees, Roethlisberger and Brady.

[brothervad]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

As I posted before:

Marino YPA 9.0
Brees YPA 8.2

Now to add others
Brady YPA 8.5
E. Manning YPA 8.3
Big Ben 8.15
Rogers 9.3

Given that the quickest release I have ever seen is from Dan Marino I would say you could plug in Rogers YPA numbers easily given today's no touch the WR football.

you put Dan Marino in GB/Rogers YPA where it's a 58% pass 42% run his numbers look like this:

Marino (YPA 9.3):--327-564 5245 yards

Marino (YPA 9.3 with NO 62%-38% ratio):--404-630 5859

Perhaps a reach but looking back in 1984 these are the number on YPA for QB's that year:

Yds/Pass Att
1. Dan Marino*+ · MIA 9.0
2. Joe Montana* · SFO 8.4
3. Neil Lomax* · STL 8.2
4. Steve Bartkowski · ATL 8.0
Lynn Dickey · GNB 8.0
6. Mark Malone · PIT 7.9
7. Ken Anderson · CIN 7.7
8. Dave Krieg* · SEA 7.6
Marc Wilson · RAI 7.6
Phil Simms · NYG 7.6

A couple of things to note--Boo Malone was 6th in the NFL for YPA
And more importantly just how far above his competition Dan Marino was at the time. It is very similar to Rogers:

Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 9.25
Tom Brady, QB NE 8.5
Matt Schaub, QB HOU 8.49
Eli Manning, QB NYG 8.25
Carson Palmer, QB OAK 8.2
Drew Brees, QB NO 8.18
Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 8.15
Tony Romo, QB DAL 8.03
Cam Newton, QB CAR 7.91
Philip Rivers, QB SD 7.76

If I wanted to take this further, I probably would compare league Pass to run % then to now just to guage how different the overall situation is in the NFL and use that overall % increase as a modifier to the pass/run ratio of Marino 84.

Suffice to say...yes 6,000 may be overstating it...but not by much.

brothervad

[DukieBoy]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

As I posted before:

Marino YPA 9.0
Brees YPA 8.2

Now to add others
Brady YPA 8.5
E. Manning YPA 8.3
Big Ben 8.15
Rogers 9.3

Given that the quickest release I have ever seen is from Dan Marino I would say you could plug in Rogers YPA numbers easily given today's no touch the WR football.

you put Dan Marino in GB/Rogers YPA where it's a 58% pass 42% run his numbers look like this:

Marino (YPA 9.3):--327-564 5245 yards

Marino (YPA 9.3 with NO 62%-38% ratio):--404-630 5859

Perhaps a reach but looking back in 1984 these are the number on YPA for QB's that year:

Yds/Pass Att
1. Dan Marino*+ · MIA 9.0
2. Joe Montana* · SFO 8.4
3. Neil Lomax* · STL 8.2
4. Steve Bartkowski · ATL 8.0
Lynn Dickey · GNB 8.0
6. Mark Malone · PIT 7.9
7. Ken Anderson · CIN 7.7
8. Dave Krieg* · SEA 7.6
Marc Wilson · RAI 7.6
Phil Simms · NYG 7.6

A couple of things to note--Boo Malone was 6th in the NFL for YPA
And more importantly just how far above his competition Dan Marino was at the time. It is very similar to Rogers:

Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 9.25
Tom Brady, QB NE 8.5
Matt Schaub, QB HOU 8.49
Eli Manning, QB NYG 8.25
Carson Palmer, QB OAK 8.2
Drew Brees, QB NO 8.18
Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 8.15
Tony Romo, QB DAL 8.03
Cam Newton, QB CAR 7.91
Philip Rivers, QB SD 7.76

If I wanted to take this further, I probably would compare league Pass to run % then to now just to guage how different the overall situation is in the NFL and use that overall % increase as a modifier to the pass/run ratio of Marino 84.

Suffice to say...yes 6,000 may be overstating it...but not by much.

brothervad

Good info. Thanks for re-posting. It gives a depth of perspective.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

Great thread. And I agree with all of you who don't like the modern, pass-happier direction of professional football. I too, am watching less NFL these days. Hardly ever watch anymore unless it's the Steelers playing.

[skyhawk]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

And I absolutely hate fantasy football. How anyone can cheer for a player on a hated
team is beyond me.

p.s. - Sorry fantasy nerds. Please don't tell your mom that I made fun of you.

Fantasy football is doing it's best to ruin real football.

Rockon

This was what I was gonna post.

The love of stats IS ruining the league. Plus look at Brees and Rodgers defenses. In the bottom 5 for the both of them. It's quickly becoming ARENA FOOTBALL folks.

[frankthetank1]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

i wouldnt say fantasy football is ruining the game since its been around for a very long time. only in the last 7 or 8 years its become extremely popular. i would say a combanation of different things has turned the nfl into arena football. the biggest reason for the change i think has been the rule changes. its impossible for defenses to play actual defense anymore. marino didnt really play all that long ago in the scope of things however the game is played very differently now compared to the 80's and 90's

[SteelAbility]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

All the NFL has done here is to throw more water into the soup. Instead of thinking of rules that emphasize pure essence of football to make the game thicker and heartier, they've watered down the meaning of scoring and offense.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

All the NFL has done here is to throw more water into the soup. Instead of thinking of rules that emphasize pure essence of football to make the game thicker and heartier, they've watered down the meaning of scoring and offense.

So you are saying that Campbell's soup should stop using their Chunky soups for their NFL ads and switch instead to their chicken broth?

[SteelAbility]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

All the NFL has done here is to throw more water into the soup. Instead of thinking of rules that emphasize pure essence of football to make the game thicker and heartier, they've watered down the meaning of scoring and offense.

So you are saying that Campbell's soup should stop using their Chunky soups for their NFL ads and switch instead to their chicken broth?

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking! :P Plus, it would be a whole lot more representative of the truth. I really appreciate truth in advertising.

[Ghost]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

Saw this blurb on Grantland.com and thought of this thread:

Was it right that I didn't get excited about Drew Brees' new passing yards record? It reminds me of Oscar Robertson averaging a triple-double, or any of the Bonds/McGwire home run records; it's impossible to separate the era from the accomplishment itself. When Dan Marino threw for 5,084 yards in 1984, you were allowed to (a) pummel the QB every chance you had, (b) dive at the QB's knees as he was throwing the ball, (c) crush any receiver coming over the middle, and (d) jam receivers at the line by any means necessary, even if you had to use a crowbar or a chainsaw. It was impossible to throw for 5,000 yards back then. Only two other 1984 QBs cracked 4,000 yards (Neil Lomax and Phil Simms); nobody else cracked 3,800 yards; and only five guys even attempted 500+ passes (Marino's 564 was the highest). In 2011? Ten QBs will crack 4,000 yards; six will crack 4,500 yards; two (including Tom Brady) will crack 5,000 yards. Heading into Week 17, ten 2011 QBs have already thrown more than 500+ passes, with Brees leading the way with 622. It's a totally different game. Heading forward, we're going to see multiple QBs throw for 5,000 yards every season … right?

[DukieBoy]

Re: Wheee! Look at the NFL QB's breaking Marino's record...

Saw this blurb on Grantland.com and thought of this thread:

Was it right that I didn't get excited about Drew Brees' new passing yards record? It reminds me of Oscar Robertson averaging a triple-double, or any of the Bonds/McGwire home run records; it's impossible to separate the era from the accomplishment itself. When Dan Marino threw for 5,084 yards in 1984, you were allowed to (a) pummel the QB every chance you had, (b) dive at the QB's knees as he was throwing the ball, (c) crush any receiver coming over the middle, and (d) jam receivers at the line by any means necessary, even if you had to use a crowbar or a chainsaw. It was impossible to throw for 5,000 yards back then. Only two other 1984 QBs cracked 4,000 yards (Neil Lomax and Phil Simms); nobody else cracked 3,800 yards; and only five guys even attempted 500+ passes (Marino's 564 was the highest). In 2011? Ten QBs will crack 4,000 yards; six will crack 4,500 yards; two (including Tom Brady) will crack 5,000 yards. Heading into Week 17, ten 2011 QBs have already thrown more than 500+ passes, with Brees leading the way with 622. It's a totally different game. Heading forward, we're going to see multiple QBs throw for 5,000 yards every season … right?

Excellent info, Ghost !