An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

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  • pick6
    Backup
    • Feb 2009
    • 394

    An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

    I am of the opinion that statistics alone can not be used as the basis for any theory or hypothesis. This is especially true when discussing matters of football, this being so do to the fact that football is best deliberated anecdotally. With that said statistics can play a role in proving your point but only in a secondary or tertiary capacity.

    This is because nearly anything can be made to seem more valid with the addition of statistical information properly extracted and placed. As evidence, I will propose an obvious absurdity to demonstrate, albeit with an extreme example, how statistics can be used incorrectly.

    Murder is caused by ice cream. Ridiculous, of course. But no, I have proof in the form of the almighty statistical data. Statistics clearly show that as ice cream sales increase so do the incidents of murder, across time and place. So in America if plotted data across time for both murder and ice cream sales we will see that they move together. The would be statistician might observe this correlation and apply for funding to look deeper into this amazing phenomenon. But the average Steeler fan would simply say "slow your roll, Sherlock" this seeming correlation can be explained in other ways. Perhaps its the hotter, longer, summer days or the fact that more people are outdoors or even out of school (among young people). Who knows, but it darn sure ain't ice cream, Einstein.

    So in football terms, don't say that QB X is better than QB Y because QB X won more superbowls. You have built an argument on a false premise. Trent Dilfer is not better than Dan Marino, c'mon. But according to the above statistic of superbowl wins then this must also be true.

    I know I'm oversimplifying, but my point is that all too often people shoot around stats as the key to their position when sometimes you might need a little more to make the point. Be careful with the stats guys they may be just part of the picture.
  • pittpete
    Legend
    • Aug 2008
    • 6825

    #2
    Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

    Too many big words, please oversimplify :P :P :P :P
    sigpic

    Comment

    • RuthlessBurgher
      Legend
      • May 2008
      • 33208

      #3
      Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

      Originally posted by pittpete
      Too many big words, please oversimplify :P :P :P :P
      Words good. Numbers bad.
      Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

      Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

      We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

      We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

      Comment

      • Dee Dub
        Hall of Famer
        • Jan 2010
        • 4652

        #4
        Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

        Or how about this one? Just because said QB has thrown for a 400 yard game or has 3,500 plus yars in his first 13 games in the NFL doesnt mean he is an elite passer.


        Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

        1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

        Comment

        • pick6
          Backup
          • Feb 2009
          • 394

          #5
          Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

          Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher
          Originally posted by pittpete
          Too many big words, please oversimplify :P :P :P :P
          Words good. Numbers bad.

          Thanks Ruthless, a brief mention of context and this is really all I had to say.

          Comment

          • pick6
            Backup
            • Feb 2009
            • 394

            #6
            Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

            Originally posted by Dee Dub
            Or how about this one? Just because said QB has thrown for a 400 yard game or has 3,500 plus yars in his first 13 games in the NFL doesnt mean he is an elite passer.



            Im surprised anybody was able to stay awake through my post, but yeah you speak the truth.

            Comment

            • snarky
              Pro Bowler
              • Sep 2008
              • 1198

              #7
              Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

              Originally posted by Dee Dub
              Or how about this one? Just because said QB has thrown for a 400 yard game or has 3,500 plus yars in his first 13 games in the NFL doesnt mean he is an elite passer.


              Nor does it mean he isn't.
              In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

              [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848"]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848[/url]

              Comment

              • snarky
                Pro Bowler
                • Sep 2008
                • 1198

                #8
                Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

                There's stats and there's statistics and very little (if anything) on this board that utilizes the latter.

                PS: Correlation != Causation
                In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

                [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848"]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848[/url]

                Comment

                • pick6
                  Backup
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 394

                  #9
                  Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

                  Originally posted by snarky
                  There's stats and there's statistics and very little (if anything) on this board that utilizes the latter.

                  PS: Correlation != Causation
                  I'm not familiar with the notation != but if that means correlation NEVER means causation then you are correct. But if it means that correlation = causation then this is incorrect. I think.

                  Comment

                  • snarky
                    Pro Bowler
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1198

                    #10
                    Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

                    Originally posted by pick6
                    Originally posted by snarky
                    There's stats and there's statistics and very little (if anything) on this board that utilizes the latter.

                    PS: Correlation != Causation
                    I'm not familiar with the notation != but if that means correlation NEVER means causation then you are correct. But if it means that correlation = causation then this is incorrect. I think.
                    ! is used to represent not so != means not equal.
                    In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

                    [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848"]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848[/url]

                    Comment

                    • pick6
                      Backup
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 394

                      #11
                      Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

                      Originally posted by snarky
                      Originally posted by pick6
                      Originally posted by snarky
                      There's stats and there's statistics and very little (if anything) on this board that utilizes the latter.

                      PS: Correlation != Causation
                      I'm not familiar with the notation != but if that means correlation NEVER means causation then you are correct. But if it means that correlation = causation then this is incorrect. I think.
                      ! is used to represent not so != means not equal.
                      Thanks, I learned something.

                      Comment

                      • Shoe
                        Hall of Famer
                        • May 2008
                        • 4044

                        #12
                        Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

                        Originally posted by pick6
                        I am of the opinion that statistics alone can not be used as the basis for any theory or hypothesis. This is especially true when discussing matters of football, this being so do to the fact that football is best deliberated anecdotally. With that said statistics can play a role in proving your point but only in a secondary or tertiary capacity.

                        This is because nearly anything can be made to seem more valid with the addition of statistical information properly extracted and placed. As evidence, I will propose an obvious absurdity to demonstrate, albeit with an extreme example, how statistics can be used incorrectly.

                        Murder is caused by ice cream. Ridiculous, of course. But no, I have proof in the form of the almighty statistical data. Statistics clearly show that as ice cream sales increase so do the incidents of murder, across time and place. So in America if plotted data across time for both murder and ice cream sales we will see that they move together. The would be statistician might observe this correlation and apply for funding to look deeper into this amazing phenomenon. But the average Steeler fan would simply say "slow your roll, Sherlock" this seeming correlation can be explained in other ways. Perhaps its the hotter, longer, summer days or the fact that more people are outdoors or even out of school (among young people). Who knows, but it darn sure ain't ice cream, Einstein.

                        So in football terms, don't say that QB X is better than QB Y because QB X won more superbowls. You have built an argument on a false premise. Trent Dilfer is not better than Dan Marino, c'mon. But according to the above statistic of superbowl wins then this must also be true.

                        I know I'm oversimplifying, but my point is that all too often people shoot around stats as the key to their position when sometimes you might need a little more to make the point. Be careful with the stats guys they may be just part of the picture.
                        You're correct... and I like this kind of stuff.

                        You mentioned Dan Marino. I do think it's relevant, when considered the GOAT, to base his inclusion in the conversation on the fact that he never won one. It's not statistical or based on any firm footing, but I just don't think you can be the GOAT if you never won a championship. You don't have to have won multiples, but you have to have had one..

                        Good post nonetheless.
                        I wasn't hired for my disposition.

                        Comment

                        • Chadman
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 6537

                          #13
                          Re: An Introduction to Statistics and Research Methodology

                          Wait....so winning SB's doth not maketh the QB great?

                          Does that mean Ben sucks??


                          The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off, why should I?

                          Light up the darkness.

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